Bugger 2: The update

[jhr]

Some of you may remember this thread, which I posted a while back. There was some debate about whether or not I would have problems in making an insurance claim.

I have now heard from the brokers who tell me that the insurers will not meet the claim, on the basis that (1) it was caused by negligence, and (2) water damage is only covered when it’s by “sudden accidental incursion”.

For those who are about to say that I should have made absolutely sure my insurance gave me the cover I wanted/needed, please spare your breath: you are right – but who can envisage all the scenarios that might arise? For those who are contemplating taking out insurance with, or are already covered by, A Certain Insurer, may I suggest investing in a long spoon before you dine with them?

As part of the policy, I took out legal insurance cover so I guess M’Learned Friends are the next step.

Je ne suis pas un lapin hereux

 

[sailorman]

Some of you may remember this thread, which I posted a while back. There was some debate about whether or not I would have problems in making an insurance claim.

I have now heard from the brokers who tell me that the insurers will not meet the claim, on the basis that (1) it was caused by negligence, and (2) water damage is only covered when it’s by “sudden accidental incursion”.

For those who are about to say that I should have made absolutely sure my insurance gave me the cover I wanted/needed, please spare your breath: you are right – but who can envisage all the scenarios that might arise? For those who are contemplating taking out insurance with, or are already covered by, A Certain Insurer, may I suggest investing in a long spoon before you dine with them?

As part of the policy, I took out legal insurance cover so I guess M’Learned Friends are the next step.

Je ne suis pas un lapin hereux

i had just written my renewal cheque to HKJ.
i have emailed this link to my broker for comment.
watch this space

if you dont mind me asking what value was the claim

 

[jhr]

Don't shoot the messenger

You have mail.

Before M'Learned friends descend on me, I should point out that the company mentioned in my original thread are the brokers, not the insurers, although I believe they are a part of the same Group of companies.

 

[benjenbav]

James, I read your original thread and thought that it was exactly this sort of thing for which you want to have insurance cover. It's a complete PITA that they are quibbling and another complete PITA to have to sue the yard for not taking the bung out which - incidentally - I don't think was your responsibility when you'd paid them to lift and secure the boat.

 

[jhr]

James, I read your original thread and thought that it was exactly this sort of thing for which you want to have insurance cover.

So did I; how wrong can you be?

Thanks for the sympathy.

 

[ian38_39]

Oh dear, sorry to hear your woes but as others have said as long as your boat is insured fully comp then surely the insurance should pay you and then recover the costs from where ever they see fit.
If it is the negligence of those that you employed to care for your craft then it must be up to your insurance to recover any costs and how do they know how fast the water came in, It could have all come in in one night.

 

[fireball]

If it is the negligence of those that you employed to care for your craft then it must be up to your insurance to recover any costs and how do they know how fast the water came in, It could have all come in in one night.

Equally shouldn't the insurance company expect the drain plug to have been removed by their client or representative thus mitigating the risk of flood whilst ashore?
That said - it is a bugger ... and it is something I would've expected insurance to cover .... are you sure there isn't a split in the cover caused by all that snow?

 

[ian38_39]

Equally shouldn't the insurance company expect the drain plug to have been removed by their client or representative thus mitigating the risk of flood whilst ashore?
That said - it is a bugger ... and it is something I would've expected insurance to cover .... are you sure there isn't a split in the cover caused by all that snow?

If the boat was in the water when left in the care of the boatyard I am sure the insurance company would have been a bit miffed if their client had taken the plug out.

 

[DAKA]

Some of you may remember this thread, which I posted a while back. There was some debate about whether or not I would have problems in making an insurance claim.



As part of the policy, I took out legal insurance cover so I guess M’Learned Friends are the next step.

Unfortunately I think you are about to learn your legal policy includes a clause to the effect you cant use it to sue the Insurers.

You can of course try to claim off the yard who is supposed to look after your boat but they will no doubt say it happened over night which could be really good news for you.
I would be asking the yard for a statement as to date when it occurred.
Ideally they will say it happened ../../.. when the cover blew off and it rained heavy or that snow filled it one night.

I went through a phase of posting on here about lack of cover for water ingress and keeping seacocks closed all the time, I think something brief got a mention in MBM because of it.

Several forum members posted that they had cover for it and I argued, even read through the whole of a Navigators and General policy to satisfy myself that there wasnt any cover unless it is due to sudden accidental sinking (sudden unforeseen event or similar).

In my opinion your best approach is to determine a sudden accidental cause and to protest your case with them, ask for details of the complaints procedure.

Haven knox Johnston have my respect in the way they handle claims, you should speak to them as soon as you find out how / when the water got in.

If it was over a long time then you have no chance, even if they agree to pay, an excess will apply to each time it rained !

 

[Silent Lady]

Also Remember

If you decide to change your Insurance Company then you must tell the New Insurance Company about the incident even though no claim was made . It will probably not effect the cost but its another let out for them in the future .

 

[jhr]

Unfortunately I think you are about to learn your legal policy includes a clause to the effect you cant use it to sue the Insurers.

You can of course try to claim off the yard who is supposed to look after your boat but they will no doubt say it happened over night which could be really good news for you.
I would be asking the yard for a statement as to date when it occurred.
Ideally they will say it happened ../../.. when the cover blew off and it rained heavy or that snow filled it one night.

I went through a phase of posting on here about lack of cover for water ingress and keeping seacocks closed all the time, I think something brief got a mention in MBM because of it.

Several forum members posted that they had cover for it and I argued, even read through the whole of a Navigators and General policy to satisfy myself that there wasnt any cover unless it is due to sudden accidental sinking (sudden unforeseen event or similar).

In my opinion your best approach is to determine a sudden accidental cause and to protest your case with them, ask for details of the complaints procedure.

Haven knox Johnston have my respect in the way they handle claims, you should speak to them as soon as you find out how / when the water got in.

If it was over a long time then you have no chance, even if they agree to pay, an excess will apply to each time it rained !

I was thinking more about sueing the Yard than sueing the insurers.

I don't think they have a clue when the damage occurred, or how. The first they knew about it was when I rang them up one Monday morning to tell them about it and ask them to take immediate remedial action. The following weekend, the bung was still in the transom.............

They are nice guys, but I despair, sometimes.

 

[burgundyben]

This is a jolly poor show, I hope you get her fixed up before the long hot summer arrives.

 

[carlton]

James - in your linked thread I posted...

your insurers have a responsibility to settle your claim, and, if they so desire, to chase up the yard for recompense. It really shouldn't be your problem/concern assuming they pay for any repairs.
/QUOTE]

...and I'm pretty sure that still applies, despite the broker's wriggling.

FWIW, here's something I found re. complaining against your insurers...

There is no point in going directly to the Ombudsman because there is a system which is intended to help you and also to help resolve complaints before the Ombudsman needs to get involved. I'll explain.
If you have a complaint against an insurance company the first thing to do is to write to that company detailing the reason and circumstances of your complaint. You need to make it very clear that you are complaining and the easiest way is to put a heading in your letter with the word "Complaint".
Give them all the facts as you see them and list any dates and times of when you contacted them or they contacted you. Send copies of any letters. Avoid any emotional or rude comments (however much you may want say what you think). Keep copies of everything.
The fact that you have made an official complaint in writing, the insurance company MUST make a record and MUST write to you to confirm they have received your letter. In that letter they may agree with your complaint and pay up. Problem solved.
They may deny doing anything wrong, refuse to make a settlement but, in that case, they MUST give you the option to contact the Ombudsman and will provide the correct address for you to write. This is where the Ombudsman comes in to act as referee. If that happens send the Ombudsman a copy of your letter with all the details. You don't need to re-write everything if you've kept photocopies.
The Ombudsman will confirm receipt of your letter, will contact the insurance company for their side of the story and remind them that they must reply to him within a set number of days and then, with all the information brought together, will decide whether you are entitled to any compensation. If you are, the Ombudsman will write to the insurance company and to you saying what conclusion has been reached. If not you'll get a letter saying why.
All this must happen with a set of time rules laid down by the Ombudsman so that the maximum time it will take for the whole process from start to finish is around 13 weeks as far as I recall.
From experience, the Ombudsman probably slightly favours the individual rather than the giant insurance company.
If your complaint is thrown out, you could then take the insurance company to Court if you really believe you have a strong enough case.

Write to the insurance company first, involve the Ombudsman if necessary and apart from your time and a postage stamp or two it wont cost you anything and you'll get a fair hearing.

Oh - and find yourself another insurance company to relieve you of your hard-earned for next year.

 

[epervier]

Whilst having heard a number of other forum members tell their tale of delight with their insurers, I'm one of the doubting Thomas type, and never had much faith in insurance, the few occasions in my life I needed to claim, they always seem to find a reason not to pay.

My deepest sympathy to you and hope some good comes out in the end for you.