budgeting

[coldandhardy]

Hi,
I posted similar to this in the lounge and they suggested here is better.

I'm new to blue water sailing. What sort of a monthly budget is needed for a 68 ft. modern live aboard motor sailer. The yacht has been sailed singlehanded often by the experienced previous owner. For my part we will be a crew of 2 and may hire on for the more adventuresome transits.
1.boat upkeep.
2. food and live aboard sundries
3. fuel
4. moorage
5. dock fees
6. maps and nav aids incl. satelite phone
7. misc.
I realize that it makes a huge difference whether the motors are on a lot or off a lot and the like but assume I just want to putter around for the next 10 years and see lots of places.

I appreciate that you may want to advise me that the boat is too big etc. and that I ought to work my way up. I sort of plan to do that too. I am 55. I have an engineering background. I can weld, be a mechanic, have owned and ran a fiberglass shop for 20 years. I have owned and sailed a 45 ft. cabin cruiser motorboat (freshwater) for 20 years. I have done some freshwater sail boating also but not much. I have the rest of my life to enjoy. The first year is intended to take all the right courses and hire crews to do some sailing and get familiar.

 

[slavkod]

HMM,

Difficult question as there are many thinks which will affect overall budget. I can speak for 40 ft which we have sailed in MED for last 2,5 years. We spent in average 2000 € per month including regular maintenance (our boat was delivered as new in 2003). Out of it major portion goes for food (40-50%) rest depends on if we go to marinas a lot, or if motor, or rent car in places we would like to see. Communication like e-mail on boat and Internet connection can make major impact on the budget as well. Frankly a lot depends on your life style and very much on the size and "age" of the boat.

Best regards,

Slavko /forums/images/graemlins/smirk.gif

 

[absit_omen]

I can tell you that the most pertinent thing I have learned in five years living aboard is that you should not buy the biggest boat you can afford but the smallest you can live on.

We moved up from 36ft to 46ft and the maintenance/mooring/running costs are significantly higher with no discernable improvement in quality of life. In fact, the boat is so loaded with unneccessary toys that I spend most of my time worrying when each one of them is going to break, how/where will I get it fixed and how much it will cost!.

If you want to really enjoy your time KEEP IT SIMPLE!

 

[jerryat]

Hi absit omen

Absolutely and totally agree! We have cruised full time for seven years in our little boat, and have watched and spoken to many, many people on larger boats who have expressed exactly those sentiments.

Definitely keep it as simple as you can and you'll have a LOT more fun!! /forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif /forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif

Cheers Jerry

 

[Bob]

The subject is really a complicated one with a lot of "if's & but's" JeanneP covers the topic very well under her comprehensive "cruising FAQ's"

http://www.cruiser.co.za/hostmelon.asp

Good luck
Bob

 

[coldandhardy]

Thank you for the continuing advice. It is not so important to tell me to buy smaller or how bad our decision has been. It would sort of be like me telling you that you have picked the wrong partner in life after you have already made the pick. We asked for your 'look forward' advice more than 'it is going to blow hard and put us on the rocks'.

I appreciate the posts and I would invite you all to contine. I simply wanted to get a sense of perspective. Some of you have given me that and I appreciate it and I will continue. I can afford the boat and I can afford the upkeep. I believe that I know what I am doing and I am prepared for total failure as well as the rewards of daily successes.

For some time the call of the independent life and the challenge of living on the water (which I am not taking lightly) including the ups and downs (both figurativly and in real life are what we both crave). If life throws hard lessons at us that is what we are barganing for. We will enjoy our victories as small as they may be, the learning experience and our failures. The adventure is the challenge and it is that that we seek. We are in this for one day at a time and we plan to make each day a very special day.

We know meaningful experience is not simply purchased. We intend to be responsible to ourselves and responsible to those who befriend us along the way. This has been, and from my part, will continue to be a sincere post. We will enjoy your company on our voyage and all of the helpful information that you can give us!

 

[BrendanS]

>>I simply wanted to get a sense of perspective<<

In simple terms, that's exactly what you've been getting. Give it a bit more time, and you may get more view points. I doubt anyone that's been out there and done it, will be giving significantly different advice.

 

[MedMan]

I have posted a full breakdown of our expenses during our first year as live-aboards here. They apply to 1998 so you will have to make an allowance for inflation but they give a good idea of where the money goes.

Your lifestyle, of course, could be entirely different. There are many things that make a difference, but the two most significant are:

How often you visit marinas/harbours. We anchor whenever we can any only go into a marina or harbour if we really have to. Some folk cruise from one marina to the next. Having a large boat will make little difference on this score if you mainly anchor, but if you are a marina-hopper the difference will be huge. [The year for which the figures I have posted relate was spent travelling from the UK to the Med which involved quite a large number of nights in harbours. In Croatia, Greece and Turkey we have visited hardly any.]

How often you eat out. We might eat out once a year, but not every year. Some folk eat out more nights than they stay in.

Other factors that can vary enormously include communications (we confine ourselves to email twice a week and no phone calls) and entertaining guests (we can't - our boat is too small).

 

[tcm]

Hi.

I don't think the boat is necesarily too big. Our first boat was 50 feet, second 76 feet. The bigger spaces allow additional redundant systems, spares, full tools and more tools, and there's more space to fit bigger better or different gear from original where a small boat has to have the space-limited system and only specific items will do. Bigger boats are safer in bigger seas and safer to move around too -and clearer deck spaces allow you to move around more quickly.

Sailingwise, yep, you'll need some instruction but not LOADS of this and bear in mind that sailing the boat is not too hard - much harder is sailing the very same boat faster than anyone else - racing. But getting the thing to go in vaguely the forward direction and not hitting things isn't desperately hard.

Altho it seems that even you seem to want to do course on smaller boats - I wouldn't. You need to learn that boat more than any other, so learning a totally different way of sail handling won't be very much use. Likewise, learning how to get back onto summink like a racing (eg laser) sailing dinghy after capsizing isn't much use either for bluewater cruiser, really.

Easily the best imho is to get someone on board your boat and (if you hit it off after day one) THEN tellem you want to go into as many channel ports as possible in (say) two or three weeks. A 68 footer will get into most tho not quite all. Having the expert on your boat gets you additional advice about the specific gear, what's busted or dodgy etc etc.

Nother good thing bout relatively large boat is that you get lots of help from harbour staff rushing over to help, and excellent berths with lots of room around. Even tho really, its the smaller boats that need more help, not larger ones.

It will cost a bit more money but not LOADS more money. With your welding/engineering skills it *sounds* as tho the fiddling and twiddling maintenance is an attraction for you rather than (as for a lot of sailors) a total headache.

You can save on crewing costs s lots of sailing boaty types will crew for free and some even contrib towards food. Have a look at sites like "crewseekers" for this sort of thing.

The other (sort-of) saving could well be on dockage/mooring fees if you take advantage of the comfier stability of a bigger rather than smaller boat at anchor, and use aft anchor to hold the boat into the swell rather than into the breeze.

You skills as welder and fibreglassing person might be useful to earn a buck (or actually er thousands of bucks) around the world too.

 

[Abigail]

Hi there,

68' may be big in europe, but not so big in US. Lots of people think 40' too big for us, so there you go! We chose on the biggest size we could handle, and I think that's very much up to you.

It seems to me there are lots of things it's worth putting a 'range' on to give you a clue as to budget.

(i) mooring compared to anchoring - BIG differences in cost immediately you go into marinas. (So worth investing in good electric windlass if not already on board!) But you will probably winter in marinas.
(ii) telecomms can be a big bite. We spend a lot in this direction, because we are earning as we go and telecomms are key. But we could save £200 a month by using old fashioned stamps.
(iii) as someone already said - how and what and where you eat and drink, plus other entertainment costs.
(iv) repairs and maintenance and kit - our roller furling bearings just broke. Ouch. Some good pals had their gear box fail in Ramsgate. megaouch. You may be able to save in this area given your admirable skills.

So it's a bit of a piece of string. The Pardeys say that if you've always been an 'eat out regularly' person you won't change when cruising. That's not really been our experience as we have tightened our belts a lot. There's a good survey in the Cooper's book 'Sell Up and Sail' which might help to give you a feel for it.

HTH - and enjoy both the planning and the cruising!

 

[absit_omen]

Apologies. I was under the (wrong) impression that you had not yet purchased this boat - that was why you were asking the questions about budgetting. Many similar posts begin with ' We are planning to......' or 'Next year we hope to......' I also assumed you had some limitations to your budget but you have since said that you can afford the boat and you can afford the upkeep. If that is the case, my observations on size are not relevant.

I can only recommend the excellent links previously mentioned to research the subject and good luck!

 

[coldandhardy]

Thank you for the detaled bread down.

 

[coldandhardy]

Wow thank you tcm! I was sort of getting worried there a bit. I really do have a go-slo approach to things and this is for sure one of them. I had thought that getting a person(s) aboard that had skills to train us was probably the best way to go but you have confirmed that and I appreciate that.

Thank you again!

 

[coldandhardy]

We have an income guarantee that is probably more than double what is needed for monthly expenses that has been indicated here. I think we are average. We will eat out a couple of times a week. Drink some rum and wine. Turn the motors on when the sails just don't do what we need etc. This will last for 30 years and I doubt that we will! I really appreciate the feedback here. It is a good window of experience learned by others and that is what a site like this is for. Thanks for the info!

 

[mike_bryon]

An interesting thread, Getting ‘an expert’ onboard or getting onboard with an expert worked well for us. I crewed for a delivery skipper for my first ocean trip and leant lots. When we first bought our current boat we got the same guy on board to run us through her (by chance he had sailed a sister ship many 1,000 of miles). We also got someone to teach us engine/generator maintenance on our own gear and had done the maintenance ourselves since. We put the heating system in and as a result know how to keep it going. We have a big boat but her systems are quite simple (more simple than our last smaller boat) and we are learning to keep them going ourselves.

We have found that our monthly expenditure has fallen greatly over time. Partly this is a result of doing more and more of our own maintenance but also because we are gradually leading a simpler, happier life in every sphere. We spend less on marina fees than when we owned a 44ft boat (current boat 60') because we sail more, anchor more and are based somewhere cheaper and nicer.

Within limits I think you make your budget work whatever it might be. If we find somewhere expensive we move on. If we like somewhere and can afford it we stay longer. If we can’t afford to repair something it is often possible to manage without it.

We find it more interesting to live among and be accepted by the folk cruising on a smallish budget. There you find a culture of helping each other out and sharing experience. For example swopping charts or 'selling on' very cheaply something you do not much need but someone else does. I don’t think this happens so much among those spending more, of course it does not need to but perhaps they are missing out.

Best wishes with your plans.