bronze skin fittings Qs

  • Thread starter Thread starter vas
  • Start date Start date
That was quick indeed, much appreciated :)

Bandit said:
Personally I favour connecting skin fittings and under water components to anodes, VyvCox does not favour connecting bronze fittings but see his website which is full of info
http://coxengineering.sharepoint.com/Pages/Metallurgy.aspx
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thanks for the url, will read carefully

Bandit said:
Use Bronze or DZR, aquafax is a good source if they will export overseas.
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ok, lost all confidence on that dealer, will cancel my order today, will get them all from the uk

Bandit said:
Personally I favour seastrainers with a plastic body and spin on clear lids as they are easy to see debris in the filter and dont corrode.
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haven't seen 1.5inch plastic strainers, will check again, but you do put them ABOVE w/l, right? Else I'd be very uncomfortable tbh.

btw, noone mentioned anything about the steel reinforced hose, I guess clear silicone based ones, right? I'll get the most expensive I can find :rolleyes:

cheers

V.
 
I think I said it on your main thread, you should look at Marelon plastic skin fittings..

I have plastic strainers with clear lids fitted such that when you take the lids off the water level is about an inch down from the top.
 
virtuvas said:
Got to trace this thread again.
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Here it is.

I don't think the issue of potential electrolytic damage to the timber in wooden hulls has ever been raised within that thread, though.
Burgundyben, I for one would be interested to hear more about that, because even if I'm in the "no need for bonding" camp, I can't think of a reason why bonding could make a difference in this respect.
 
MapisM said:
Did you try with oρείχαλκος and κρατέρωμα respectively? :)
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mate, next time you're in Greece, let me know, I'll come and take you to a chandlery and let you ask for these two words and I'll laugh my head off from their reactions :D
You can try showing them the typed words (as they're rather difficult to pronounce by an Italian) and see if they can read them, especially the second one :rolleyes:

seriously, even the bronze seacock the good guy was trying to sell me wasn't bronze...
I give up.

BB, I'm reading and collecting info re marelon. I really like this integrated 3/4inch one. Looks very sturdy and well made (imho) any reason not to go for it?

and may go along this route for all 3/4inch ones (4of them at last count)
Not sure I'd be happy with 1.5inch engine intakes though, need to read a bit more to persuade myself to go plastic all the way.
Definitely plastic for all outlets (lots of them as well)
Thing is I'm between places and not back home with decent internet connection, so I cannot do my research properly. Will come back with more on Wed. BTW, care to point where you got yours Ben? aquafax only have I type, not the whole range.

Will also check vetus or other plastic strainers.

thanks for all pointers

Cheers

V.
 
I used bronze and DZR from Aquafax, they happen to be about 200 mtrs from my house.

I believe that Marelon is the way forward, the only reason I did not use it is because I wish to sell the boat this year and the market is not ready for a Fairey boat with plastic skin fittings.
 
OK, I can see your point BB ;)
However, in my case, looks like marelon is full of advantages (and i'm not planning to sell anytime soon...)

Right, with a bit of googling, I found the GR dealer for marelon stuff, happened to be 10min drive from my house in Athens and paid him a visit this morning ;)
Nice chap, had a good range of stuff, checked them out, look good to me even the 1.5inch bits look and feel sturdy enough!

Price for a complete setup with skin fitting, ball valve and the outlet/nozzle dunno how you call that where the flex pipe fits and is secured upon are:

3/4inch 41.70euro
1 1/2 inch 79.70euro
prices include VAT (23% atm) and are very competitive to the brass/possibly bronze bits I've found here.

So looks like I'll do another check for the genny size just in case it's 1 inch and not 3/4 and I'll place my order.
BTW, dead easy to assemble, just ptfe tape in between, ball valves feel really smooth compared to brand new bronze or whatever ones I've tried to open/close (a pain to move the handle in metal ones, marelon just moves with small effort!)

Trying to source Vetus strainers, although I may go for bronze ones (nickel plated) that look exceptionally solidly built (at 50euro for 3/4 and 187 for 1.5 ouch!)

an update on the main thread to follow tomorrow

cheers

V.
 
I have only scanned the thread so forgive me if this has been said.....

Plastic through hulls have no place on a wood boat and in my opinion have little use on any boat.

Every wood boat behaves differently with regards to bonding, some will need bonding and some will not. Little Ship was bonded and after about 4 years I started to see the chemical reaction (cellular deterioration of the wood) taking place on (only) one of the through hull fittings. Disconnecting the bonding in that region has stopped the reaction.

Many Wooden boats will show signs of some reaction at the connections, usually looks like a white fuzzy film on the fitting. Washing with white vinegar will clear it and then a wash off with clear water and fully drying will remove this problem.

Bonding on wood hulls is a black art and once bonded, it wont mean that it will stay that way forever. Bonding should be part of a regular maintenance program.

Just to reiterate.......Plastic fittings have no place on wood boats.

Tom
 
Tom,
appreciate your views, but would be nice to back it up and give some explanations!
Remember plywood hull will be all coated (mostlikely with west systems epoxy, IIRC BB has also gone this route, right?

GRP hulls are acceptable for boats so why should be GRP (and imho fairly above standard stuff) be dismissed altogether? Just curious.
I have to admit that heat and IR/UV radiation could be causes for concern, but down there most are non issues.

BTW, not going to place an order before the end of August, so plenty of time to change my mind a few more times :D

cheers

V.
 
LittleShip said:
Little Ship was bonded and after about 4 years I started to see the chemical reaction (cellular deterioration of the wood) taking place on (only) one of the through hull fittings.
Disconnecting the bonding in that region has stopped the reaction.
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So, if as I understand she was built unbonded, why did you bond her, to start with?
Re. plastic fittings, I assume that you're against them for the same reasons why also plastic transducers are not recommended for wooden hulls - namely, because wood shrinks and expands.
Which means that if the fitting is installed when the wood is dry, and with a very tight fit, wood expansion when the boat hits the water could break the plastic thingie.
But if you know of any other reasons, I'm also interested to hear them.
 
V
Plastic through hulls have no place on a wood boat and in my opinion have little use on any boat.


Wood boats move... expand and contract this can and has on many occasions caused the plastic fitting to crack...I'm sure if you look at the manufacturers recommendations it will state something about suitability.

Last year a friend of mine that keeps his boat in a marina that has both fresh and salt water in it lost his boat when the fresh water (on top of the salt) froze in the skin fitting and even though the sea cock was turned off the skin fitting cracked and when the thaw came,......down went his boat. Incidentally 3 boats sank within 15 mins all with plastic through hulls.

As I stated "in my opinion" experience is the mother of all learning.

Tom
 
MapisM said:
So, if as I understand she was built unbonded, why did you bond her, to start with?
Re. plastic fittings, I assume that you're against them for the same reasons why also plastic transducers are not recommended for wooden hulls - namely, because wood shrinks and expands.
Which means that if the fitting is installed when the wood is dry, and with a very tight fit, wood expansion when the boat hits the water could break the plastic thingie.
But if you know of any other reasons, I'm also interested to hear them.
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I never said she was built unbonded

I did say.......
"Bonding on wood hulls is a black art and once bonded, it wont mean that it will stay that way forever. Bonding should be part of a regular maintenance program." I should have said that after 4 years of ownership I started to see the chemical reaction (cellular deterioration of the wood)

Wood boats are not the same as the stuff from the bottom of a scientist jar, they are a natural substance that will need to be checked on a regular basis. Placing the boat in different types of water will effect how it reacts to it's environment.

We all have our opinions I have passed mine on with regards to some practical experience.

Tom
 
I'm about to order some (1.5inch) ball valves, to be used as seacocks in saltwater, and have found some with the following materials spec, which is propoer aluminium bronze I believe for the body, ball and stem. Looks good to me though Bandit or anyone please shout if you disagree

Body/Ball: ASTM B148 C95800
Stem: EN12163 CW307G R680
Seats/Seals: PTFE
Bolting: ASTM A193 B8M 8M

Made by brooksbank.co.uk

In 1.5inch/38mm, these are £1,000 each with electric actuators, gweep, fall off chair.

Incidentally and separately, I noticed that some of the DZR valves on websites linked above had brass ball shafts/stems, which is a bit of a shame. Though a failure in the shaft probably wont sink the boat I suppose and it's only a fialure in the body that would be catastrophic
 
LittleShip said:
V
Plastic through hulls have no place on a wood boat and in my opinion have little use on any boat.


Wood boats move... expand and contract this can and has on many occasions caused the plastic fitting to crack...I'm sure if you look at the manufacturers recommendations it will state something about suitability.

Last year a friend of mine that keeps his boat in a marina that has both fresh and salt water in it lost his boat when the fresh water (on top of the salt) froze in the skin fitting and even though the sea cock was turned off the skin fitting cracked and when the thaw came,......down went his boat. Incidentally 3 boats sank within 15 mins all with plastic through hulls.

As I stated "in my opinion" experience is the mother of all learning.

Tom
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In the case of the Marelon units I reccommended it states that they are suitable for wood boats.

Your anecdotal comments of boats sinking is news to me, I know of several cases of skin fittings failing, none were Marelon and none were bronze.

It goes to show that a skin fitting is not a fit and forget item.
 
burgundyben said:
In the case of the Marelon units I reccommended it states that they are suitable for wood boats. Please point me in the direction of that statement...I cant find any info to confirm it.

Your anecdotal comments of boats sinking is news to me, I know of several cases of skin fittings failing, none were Marelon and none were bronze.
Poolbeg marina Dublin, salt water below fresh water from the Liffey on top

It goes to show that a skin fitting is not a fit and forget item.I agree with that statement pity that many more dont and just leave them, bit like bonding ect
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Tom
 
LittleShip said:
So it does...........but I still stand by my opinion that Plastic hull fittings have no place on a wood boat. :)

It's my opinion and I'm entitled to it :)

Tom
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Of course.

I think it very much depends on the type of construction, Virtuvas boat is ply, mine is hot moulded, I think either of those its fine, these materials and constructions are much more dimensionally stable than perhaps you'd find on a traditional construction.
 
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