Broker's requests just sent me rolling on the floor laughing

W

WorstCase

Well-Known Member
Joined
7 Apr 2015
Messages
120
Visit site
I just made a semi-formal offer on a boat and the broker's reply I found totally absurd.
But then again, maybe it's just my lack of experience in the world of yachts' brokerage...

Basically the broker reply was (I translate literally):
" Dear Sir,
we have received your email but unfortunately we cannot comment on your offer as long as we have not received signed copies of our standard agreement and the corresponding deposits"

The deposits they are referring to are:
1. 10% of the offer value
2. 5% of the offer value as their commission

The agreement says that if the offer is not accepted they will refund. Mind you... they cannot tell me whether the amount I offer is acceptable or not... to say this they need 15% of whatever I offer for the boat in their accounts.
I find this so ridiculous it's not even funny.

Are they for real?
 
Last edited:
Mention of translation implies they're not in the UK?

Never heard of such a practice here, but who knows what's normal elsewhere. I guess Italy or possibly France?

Pete
 
Well for the time being let's just say this company has been in business 25 years and it's hardly a scam.
Although I must admit the thought it could be kinda crossed my mind
 
+1.

In a similar veign, how would one make an 'offer' without it being contractual? In other words, agree a deal in principle then pay a deposit or just complete the transaction once the survey have been undertaken?
 
petem said:
What a surprise!
Click to expand...

HAHAHA
yes I see your point.

But you see, I would have expected something more elaborate... (I am Italian)
Their proposition just doesn't make any sense whatsoever.
I gave them a figure... they can say too little or OK... if OK I understand the point of asking for a deposit on the offer.
Asking for a deposit to simply COMMENT on an offer AND demand the brokerage fees deposited at this stage is just so obviously unacceptable I cannot even imagine why would someone want to propose this
They might as well told me the boat is sold already as far as I am concerned
 
Last edited:
WorstCase said:
Well for the time being let's just say this company has been in business 25 years and it's hardly a scam.
Although I must admit the thought it could be kinda crossed my mind
Click to expand...

The guy who stole €4250 from me has been a broker for 15 years, a member of trade associations and well established.

History doesn't stop anyone being a thief if the mood takes them.
 
Blimey.

Anyway, is it typical in Italy for the buyer to pay a 5% commission to the broker? Presumably he'll be taking a substantial amount from the seller as well?
 
Alan ashore said:
Blimey.
Anyway, is it typical in Italy for the buyer to pay a 5% commission to the broker? Presumably he'll be taking a substantial amount from the seller as well?
Click to expand...

Commissions are part of most deals, as far as yacht brokerage in Italy it seems normal to charge the buyer a variable and negotiable amount. Most brokers mention 5% but everything is negotiable.
As far I am concerned I offer what I want to pay for the boat inclusive of any commissions, if the seller is not happy with what is left for him then he will not close on the deal, so the commission issue is fairly irrelevant. What is relevant is asking it to be deposited together with 10% of the offer even before the price is discussed. I don't see any reason for expecting a buyer to accept this, and I was wondering if I was missing something. Apparently I wasn't.
 
Last edited:
Can you advise who is the broker, maybe also with PM?

Also in Italy usually it works this way, unless he is a MYBA broker, the ten per cent deposit requested is a signed cheque which the broker will keep.
The cheque details will be in your offer and your contract if the offer is accepted. If not accepted cheque will be returned.
They do this because as it happens many buyers put an offer to test the market and sometimes you do not hear any more from them.
Even this is not bomb proof but it gives a bit an idea if buyer is serious or not, rather then someone who gives offers and then jumps on the next cheaper boat which came the day after.

Most Italian Brokers work with a 5 + 5% scenario.
 
PowerYachtBlog said:
Can you advise who is the broker, maybe also with PM?

Also in Italy usually it works this way, unless he is a MYBA broker, the ten per cent deposit requested is a signed cheque which the broker will keep.
The cheque details will be in your offer and your contract if the offer is accepted. If not accepted cheque will be returned.
They do this because as it happens many buyers put an offer to test the market and sometimes you do not hear any more from them.
Even this is not bomb proof but it gives a bit an idea if buyer is serious or not, rather then someone who gives offers and then jumps on the next cheaper boat which came the day after.

Most Italian Brokers work with a 5 + 5% scenario.
Click to expand...

What you describe is normally the case for example in Court auctions as this ensures that anybody putting an offer is actually able to pay, with the slight difference that one thing is depositing a cheque in Court another one is to put it in some broker's hands.
Preventing a potential buyer from "testing" the market sounds like a lesser objective compared to the supposedly primary objective of "selling a boat", as I am convinced that imposing these conditions ultimately results in having NO buyers what so ever.
 
PowerYachtBlog said:
They do this because as it happens many buyers put an offer to test the market and sometimes you do not hear any more from them.
Click to expand...
Yup, there are potential buyers who go around making multiple (usually very low) offers on boats they haven't seen and then only bother going to see those boats on which the owner has indicated he would accept their low offer. It is arse about face to the normal method and I can understand why a broker might get frustrated by this kind of thing and demand a deposit with the offer

As far as the OP is concerned, what exactly is a semi formal offer anyway? Is it an offer to buy the boat (subject to survey and seatrial) or not? Maybe the broker is getting the sense from you that your offer isn't that serious which is why he's asked for a deposit and contract which btw you shouldn't agree to. My advice would be to go and see the boat if you haven't already, meet the broker personally, demonstrate that you're a serious buyer in the market but tell him in no uncertain terms that there's no way you're risking a deposit until the owner accepts your offer. And even then, 10% is too high. When I bought my current boat in Italy I offered the seller 5% deposit after they had agreed the deal and that was enough to proceed with the survey and seatrial
 
Deleted User said:
Yup, there are potential buyers who go around making multiple (usually very low) offers on boats they haven't seen and then only bother going to see those boats on which the owner has indicated he would accept their low offer. It is arse about face to the normal method and I can understand why a broker might get frustrated by this kind of thing and demand a deposit with the offer

As far as the OP is concerned, what exactly is a semi formal offer anyway? Is it an offer to buy the boat (subject to survey and seatrial) or not? Maybe the broker is getting the sense from you that your offer isn't that serious which is why he's asked for a deposit and contract which btw you shouldn't agree to. My advice would be to go and see the boat if you haven't already, meet the broker personally, demonstrate that you're a serious buyer in the market but tell him in no uncertain terms that there's no way you're risking a deposit until the owner accepts your offer. And even then, 10% is too high. When I bought my current boat in Italy I offered the seller 5% deposit after they had agreed the deal and that was enough to proceed with the survey and seatrial
Click to expand...

I tried putting myself in the shoes of the seller and broker and I see how I might actually act the same way... as long as that wouldn't make it impossible to achieve my goal which should be selling the boat...

In this particular case I have visited the boat prior to making an offer at a location to which I had to travel to specifically for this purpose with a certain cost in terms of money and time.
I actually visited the boat twice during the same day after a lengthy discussion with my wife as I was "for" while she was against. The broker was not present but discussed with me arrangements for the visit beforehand, and discussed details a few days later.

I have sent the broker an email stating the amount I am ready to pay for the boat and at what conditions I am willing to proceed. These conditions have mainly to do with proving the assumptions that were made in order to come to the price. These conditions should go on the sale agreement at which point I am willing to pay a deposit nowhere near 15% of my offer (the 5% you mention is more like it). As I will have to hire a surveyor I believe it would be enough of a loss if I had to renounce the purchase after that.
 
Last edited:
Not sure what the situation concerning exclusive brokerage rights is in Italy but in Croatia it seems most boats are listed with at least 2 brokers if not more.

When we bought we went with the Broker who seemed to be the most trustworthy and they were also the ones not asking a commission from the buyer.

Have you looked around to see if the same boat is listed elsewhere.
 
ian38_39 said:
Not sure what the situation concerning exclusive brokerage rights is in Italy but in Croatia it seems most boats are listed with at least 2 brokers if not more.

When we bought we went with the Broker who seemed to be the most trustworthy and they were also the ones not asking a commission from the buyer.

Have you looked around to see if the same boat is listed elsewhere.
Click to expand...

I did search before, no other listing.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.

Share this page

Top