Broker acting with 'Power of Attorney'

lambohill

lambohill

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Hi, flew out, saw boat, made offer, agreed deal, never met owner. Broker confirms on several occasions that he has been granted 'Power of Attorney', deposit paid, completion next week, email from Broker today...deal off, owner says no, has another buyer whom he prefers.....

Timeline was, seen last week, agreed on the spot and deposit paid. Survey next day. Report yesterday, counter offer on survey today, counter offer refused by broker, original price then promptly agreed.
Completion set for monday. Unexpectedly, broker then pulled deal at end of day.

Does the broker who also has marine business as trade as he has been dealing with me all along under PoA not act as seller?

Oh , and Broker offers deposit back plus a few €€.......as he is 'very sorry'

British flag in the med.
 
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When you paid the deposit did you not sign a contact?

In which case the seller is in breech of contract? To be fair it would have to have been a stunning deal to sue and enforce the contact to completion but I'd certainly be looking to cover costs.

You aren't having the best time buying....
 
In the UK once the deposit is paid and accepted you have a contract, but this assumes the Broker does have the power he states, and if not you could sue him, indeed he may have committed fraud. But and despite the EU, it seems likely that other Country's will obey the laws as they fancy to. Have they offered to pay your survey fee - if not at minimum declare a lien on the vessel, and advise you have a contract and will be enforcing it. Your payment will arrive on Monday and you will then collect YOUR boat.

I appreciate this might easier be said than done.
 
He offers getting the deposit back. Broker has added a small bit on for flights etc. I'm wondering what his power of attorney might mean for him, in that surely it is his deal now, not the sellers to decide to break.
I'm writing to him by email as he won't answer the phone, and I am about to remind him of the PoA he advised me off.
 
superheat6k said:
In the UK once the deposit is paid and accepted you have a contract, but this assumes the Broker does have the power he states, and if not you could sue him, indeed he may have committed fraud. But and despite the EU, it seems likely that other Country's will obey the laws as they fancy to. Have they offered to pay your survey fee - if not at minimum declare a lien on the vessel, and advise you have a contract and will be enforcing it. Your payment will arrive on Monday and you will then collect YOUR boat.

I appreciate this might easier be said than done.
Click to expand...


Yep, he is offering deposit back, plus a little bit for out of pocket. He is however hiding behind the 'nasty' owner. 'BUT' he told me on several occasions as did his staff that 'he' had Power of Attorney' in the sale and all was agreed with him etc. So I guess I can sue him...LOL.... this is supposed to be a fun hobby...not work!
 
The broker is appointed by the seller to act as their agent.
I guess the key here is who signed the MOA/contract, the broker or the seller?

I am assuming given your description it was the broker. I. Which case he would need to have been given the authority to do Sony the seller (needent be so formal as a PoA by the way). Hindsight is a wonderful thing but it would have been good to see confirmation of authority (no, I wouldn't have thought to ask for it either)
 
Yep. It is the broker. I was going to get sight as part of papers in the sale as it would be necessary for ownership.

The way the deal was / is, might as well rock up, drop the loot on the mans floor and drive off as far as i can see this was the preferred route!

Who said the buying was the easy bit!
The idea of
 
Sorry to hear about your disappointment .
We have only got your 1/2 of a story .

Money talks , if you were a fair amount under the AP , then chip him more after the survey s - then you are always gonna be vulnerable.

That’s the principle .
Was it on for long ? Did the broker hint about “ other interest “

A lot of Med guys don,t get the “Brit stiff upper lip “ classical boat buying process / pantomime .Mention VAT after another roll of the eyes the brokers already mentally thinking about the next prospect .He,s on his phone the minute you turn your back .
It boils down to €€€ — if the other side feel you are too much hassle for not enough €€€ - then they are easily turned .

Another guy probably none Brit turns up , agrees higher price + no survey hassle , -VAT never mentioned = Gazump !
 
lambohill said:
The way the deal was / is, might as well rock up, drop the loot on the mans floor and drive off as far as i can see this was the preferred route. of
Click to expand...

You have forgot to mention how the broker wants paying ? Like what colour envelope(s) he prefers?
So s it a bit more than the dropping a bag .
Where do you drop the bag *,owner or his “ sister “

* BACs transfer.
 
Portofino said:
Sorry to hear about your disappointment .
We have only got your 1/2 of a story .

Money talks , if you were a fair amount under the AP , then chip him more after the survey s - then you are always gonna be vulnerable.

That’s the principle .
Was it on for long ? Did the broker hint about “ other interest “

A lot of Med guys don,t get the “Brit stiff upper lip “ classical boat buying process / pantomime .Mention VAT after another roll of the eyes the brokers already mentally thinking about the next prospect .He,s on his phone the minute you turn your back .
It boils down to €€€ — if the other side feel you are too much hassle for not enough €€€ - then they are easily turned .

Another guy probably none Brit turns up , agrees higher price + no survey hassle , -VAT never mentioned = Gazump !
Click to expand...

Funnily enough, you are generally spot on. I have been here before with euro seller getting the huff over a deal, either me being too slow, too low, or too fussy.

So this time.....10% under AP, deal done on the spot last week. Smallish deposit as asked, paid on the spot as good will. Forget the (structural or full) survey, we will do it euro way! Next day get MAN guys out as deal is object to engines.
Engines and sea trial done, await results until yesterday. A few issues thrown up. I ask for reduction at 40% of the survey figure. Hours pass, broker comes back, deal or no deal.

I say give me 5 min. I call back, deal it is. I book the euros, flights, etc etc. complete on monday. All this under his claim of PoA.

Then about 3 hours later, email, no call, very sorry, owner, and i quote 'pissed' that you asked for price reduction on survey, despite this now being history as I agreed to his demand of no price variation.

Deal Off.

Deposit back and a couple of shillings for your trouble.......
 
Portofino said:
Do you mind saying what were “ A few issues thrown up “ with the MAN report ?
Just to help calibration of your fuss-o meter .May help next time ?
Click to expand...

Yes, the issues were,

One fuel pump high level pressure leak. {o ring job €2k}
Other pump leak starting another €2k
Service €4k - fine i knew.
Clean exchangers €10K - whatever.
V small Oil weep at oil coolers €10k....this is so little i would simply keep an eye.

Basically the only new ones were the pumps, which I felt they should cover. The rest, well a bit over priced, and fairly run of the mill.

However, I asked for €10k off, they said no, I said OK, lets go on original price. This decision was give within 5 mins. They said yes, thats agreed. Further calls. Money booked. Flights booked. Completion monday.......

Then they pulled out
 
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lambohill said:
Yes, the issues were,

One fuel pump high level pressure leak. {o ring job €2k}
Other pump leak starting another €2k
Service €4k - fine i knew.
Clean exchangers €10K - whatever.
V small Oil weep at oil coolers €10k....this is so little i would simply keep an eye.

Basically the only new ones were the pumps, which I felt they should cover. The rest, well a bit over priced, and fairly run of the mill.

However, I asked for €10k off, they said no, I said OK, lets go on original price. This decision was give within 5 mins. They said yes. Completion monday.......
Click to expand...

Thx for that ......
Yup agree , the only one for me would be the pumps
So I concur with the “fussy ness .”

The rest is aspirational in my book

But that’s only € 4K .needs doing not deferring.

Engine service you new that and they new that a buyer would spot that in the service history file .Presume AP pitched and the minus 10% agreed ,they think that’s in that ? Given you headroom so to speak .
Coolers , nobody ( out of warranty ) follows the MAN book every 2 years .Most wait until temps rise from memory above 90 of high 80 ,s — should be 84 or 86 in the summer @ 18-2000 rpm .
Anything over that then it’s time .
Oil coolers - defer .

I think you have been unlucky the way it’s panned out , but 10 % off hmm ok ish ?
From the other side I can see why the seller was “ pissed off “ —- another €4 k for the pumps tops ,but you wanted €10:K
AMHO of course .
 
Portofino said:
Thx for that ......
Yup agree , the only one for me would be the pumps
So I concur with the “fussy ness .”

The rest is aspirational in my book

But that’s only € 4K .needs doing not deferring.

Engine service you new that and they new that a buyer would spot that in the service history file .Presume AP pitched and the minus 10% agreed ,they think that’s in that ? Given you headroom so to speak .
Coolers , nobody ( out of warranty ) follows the MAN book every 2 years .Most wait until temps rise from memory above 90 of high 80 ,s — should be 84 or 86 in the summer @ 18-2000 rpm .
Anything over that then it’s time .
Oil coolers - defer .

I think you have been unlucky the way it’s panned out , but 10 % off hmm ok ish ?
From the other side I can see why the seller was “ pissed off “ —- another €4 k for the pumps tops ,but you wanted €10:K
AMHO of course .
Click to expand...

Yes, I can see him being 'p@ssed' at 10k for 4k, but others would have saw 28k. anyway i asked, 6 hours later they said no. % mins later I said fine, lets go. They said proceed and confirmed verbally they would sign all papers on the PoA. etc etc

All in all, 10% below, faults accepted, deal on within 5 mins, I wish in my business peeps were so fussy!

To be clear, I accepted all faults at orig price within 5 mins of being asked to .
 
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My understanding of what happened is pretty simple.
The broker already had another punter. He rang him and warned him that the boat was going.
That guy offered a bit more there and then - enough to allow the broker to offer you also some refund of your costs.
The broker, knowing that you wouldn't bother going legal, sold the boat to the other guy.

I don't think you did anything wrong, and I wouldn't do anything different next time.
In your boots, I'd just forget this and move on.

Out of curiosity, did you say oil coolers because they were leaking on both engines, or because the boat had V12, which as I'm told have two of them each?
Regardless, I'd be surprised if your MAN engineer suggested to just keep an eye and defer the fix - and I disagree with PF who confirmed such proposition.
In fact, an external leak as such is no biggie, but it could be due to an internal crack in the cooler itself, which means a possible exchange between oil and coolant circuits, behind the scenes.
And there's no way to know without removing the cooler - which is a PITA, because aside from its somewhat hidden position, it's necessary to drain both coolant and oil first.
In fact, I don't think that the 10k Eur quotation is as silly as you might have thought, assuming that it included the coolers replacement.

Anyway. That's water under the bridge by now, I reckon.
But I'm just saying, in case you would come across that again in the next boat...
Apropos (with apologies if it was already mentioned and I forgot), what sort of boat are you looking for?
All the very best for finding an even better one soon, anyway! :encouragement:
 
superheat6k said:
In the UK once the deposit is paid and accepted you have a contract, but this assumes the Broker does have the power he states, and if not you could sue him, indeed he may have committed fraud. But and despite the EU, it seems likely that other Country's will obey the laws as they fancy to. Have they offered to pay your survey fee - if not at minimum declare a lien on the vessel, and advise you have a contract and will be enforcing it. Your payment will arrive on Monday and you will then collect YOUR boat.

I appreciate this might easier be said than done.
Click to expand...
Bad luck.
The above is VERY wrong though and represents a big misunderstanding of contract law and property law both in U.K. and Spain. The boat does not become YOUR boat merely by paying for it, so taking it would be theft. Do remember to post pics on here of the insides of the Spanish jail!
There is no valid basis to assert a lien.
Mapism is correct above. You have to walk away with your expenses refunded. You haven't actually suffered a loss (in the sue-able financial sense) so you have nothing to sue for.
 
I think I've met this guy's 'tricky sod' cousin in France ... foreigners dealing with foreigners all think you came down with the last shower of rain! Get your deposit back but don't walk away - run! There'll be another one along soon without the engine problems and ready to go.
 
lambohill said:
Yep, he is offering deposit back, plus a little bit for out of pocket. He is however hiding behind the 'nasty' owner. 'BUT' he told me on several occasions as did his staff that 'he' had Power of Attorney' in the sale and all was agreed with him etc. So I guess I can sue him...LOL.... this is supposed to be a fun hobby...not work!
Click to expand...

My guess is that this Power of Attorney thing is just bullshit. It probably amounts to no more than a brokerage selling agreement. Ask yourself why a seller who is perfectly compos mentis enough to reject your offer would give a broker power of attorney over his property? Personally and without knowing the details I think you've dodged a bullet here providing you get your deposit back. It sounds like the owner is trouble and the broker untrustworthy. Just walk away and put it down to experience.

I have bought several boats in Europe over the years and as a general rule I always try to work through a trustworthy UK based broker as an intermediary so that he holds the deposit rather than the primary broker who of course I generally dont know. Yes that may cost you a couple of % more because of course the UK broker is going to negotiate a cut of the commission himself but if he's doing his job properly, as I say not only do you have the security of him holding the deposit but he will cut through the kind of crap you have experienced and advise you on the best course of action as each problem arises. Apart from that, an experienced UK broker will probably know many of the European brokers himself and be able to advise whether the European broker is trusted or not
 
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