Broken P bracket

You have my sympathy - not that is helpful. I must admit that I do not like the stub of the P bracket; not at all. It might be necessary to employ your own surveyor. Albeit that my insurance claim was about theft, the insurers employed a surveyor and .... I best only say 'was difficult'.
 
Daverw said:
I had exactly this problem 4 years ago, I think it’s was a mooring chain that we had caught in the mud, it snapped off at the hull but we did not feel the issue until we arrived where we were heading 10 hours later and put the engine back on.
We did the work ourselves, took about 3 weeks to complete, the hard bit was removing the stub left inside the hull as the internal brackets were fully glassed over. This happened when away where no hall out or repair facility possible so had to sail back about 12 hours. Luckily wind and tide helped and only had to briefly motor at each end. However the noise was low when spinning, it did bend the shaft which had to be replaced. The real issue was the movement of the prop started cutting into the hull and this was very deep when we eventually got home.
The actual work was not hard with material costs about £2k, we did not claim on insurance as assumed we had hit something so our fault, we also used the opportunity to replace shaft seal and motor mounts.

Just to add we did also had to repair around the shaft log as running without support from the p bracket had also worn this
Click to expand...
Surprised you did not claim on your insurance. If you have all risks that is what you have paid for - it does not matter if you think it was your fault. Just the same as if you hit a tree with you car or in my recent case a poorly stowed (by me) kitchen door in an overhead rack in my garage fell on my Morgan causing £1500 pounds wort of damage. No question that the insurer would not pay, only the mechanics of getting the work done to the right standard. All risks insurance is a contract and if your claim meets the conditions, they pay.

"Fault" only becomes an issue where there is a third party claim.
 
Not quite right Tranona. If the fault was caused by owner neglect or if the P bracket itself was faulty , not that I am suggesting either. But insurance covers accidents not inevitabilities.

I wish Concerto the best
 
Birdseye said:
Not quite right Tranona. If the fault was caused by owner neglect or if the P bracket itself was faulty , not that I am suggesting either. But insurance covers accidents not inevitabilities.

I wish Concerto the best
Click to expand...
Both failures were caused by picking up a piece of rope/chain. No fault of the owner - and even if he was at fault an all risks policy would still pay as I illustrated. Negligence becomes important in third party claims against you which neither of these are. The latent defect which is what I think you are referring to is a different concept altogether and again probably not relevant as the damage was caused by an external event, not a failure of the P braqcket.
 
Concerto said:
When I caught a fishing float off Salcombe on my delivery trip from Chatham to Pwllheli in June, I thought I had cut the line and it had jammed on the folding propeller with the small float still attached. This morning I was lifted for a scrub and some other work, only to find there was no line on the propeller but the P bracket had sheared. What a bummer. The insurance company have already been contacted to see whether I am covered.

View attachment 197989

View attachment 197990

View attachment 197991
Looking forward at the broken stub and where the P bracket had hit the hull.

View attachment 197992

For those interested in the antifouling. It is Micron 350 that was applied in April 2024 and had not been scrubbed since as Chatham Marina is a locked basin about 10 metres deep, minimal transfer of water in via the lock, virtually no mud in the water, plus rainfall with 2 natural springs keep the water not as saline as the River Medway.

I will keep you all informed as to progress, but this problem will probably mean most of the rest of the season will be wiped out.
Click to expand...
That's horrible luck Concerto .You are taking it well.
 
First company visited today. Considering 3 options to get at the P bracket fixing in the boat. First it to remove the water tank, after disconnecting and removing the fridge compressor, to give access from the sail locker. Second option is to remove the engine and remove the water tank with access from the cabin. The third is my favoured one. Cut the floor of the cockpit and remove the fuel tank (it’s full) giving access from above. Tomorrow a fitter is coming to pass his experience to see which is best. Expected time to completion of the job is 2 months.

Still have not heard from the insurance company.

Boat keys are with the marina in case they are needed after I go home tomorrow.

There is little I can do except let things to start happening. Still done some jobs. Changed the inlet pipe to the loo to replace the temporary fitted in 2022 when in Wick (could not get the correct type of pipe). Then did the pig of a job of servicing the Blake’s seacocks for the loo. The retro fitted holding tank in distant past has left pipes in way of the seacocks. Very little access to undo the bolts to remove the cones for cleaning and greasing. Washed the topsides ready to polish tomorrow. Cleaned the bits of antifouling that was under the lifting straps. Removed Chatham lettering off the transom which left a ghost colour on the gel coat, so I wet sander the area to loose it. Looks like I will have to do the same for the transom name as some of the gold vinyl has crazed and faded.

Also had to empty the sail locker. Fenders are tied over the mainsail, warps under the sprayhood, fender plank fits neatly beside the spinnaker pole with the boat hook with it. The liferaft which is normally on the cockpit sole is now on the port cockpit seat. This leaves just the dinghy and Solent jib to be stored below. This will give the best access for the work and still leave the side decks clear.

I think I shall have to look as this as an opportunity to do a few other maintenance jobs I had been leaving until back in the water. The one bonus is the marina do not worry about you staying on your boat ashore, which was not allowed in my old marina. The downside is they charge for the cradle and storage whilst ashore, which was free at the old marina.
 
Really rotten luck, and not something I've heard of before.

If you were closer and went down the DIY route (which I suspect you will) I'd offer to give you a hand.

I remember seeing Concerto at Mercury Marina a couple of years ago, lovely boat.

Best of luck with it all, and please keep us abreast of developments.
 
Wow, what a mess. I'll be in the yard a bit myself over the coming weeks. If I see you I will come to offer my condolences.
I've never really thought about P brackets or what they are made of. The ones I see on the web appear to be metal and very substantial. Is yours metal and if so was there any corrosion?
 
They are made of bronze and generally pretty robust. The bit that is in the hull is like a flat plate with 4 holes in it that sit in a pocket then glassed over with the holes forming a key. Some builders, particularly with larger boats bolt it to a web and then glass over. Not sure exactly how Westerly did it, but it will be pretty substantial. better it breaks there than pulls out of the bottom of the boat leaving a hole!
 
ridgy said:
Wow, what a mess. I'll be in the yard a bit myself over the coming weeks. If I see you I will come to offer my condolences.
I've never really thought about P brackets or what they are made of. The ones I see on the web appear to be metal and very substantial. Is yours metal and if so was there any corrosion?
Click to expand...
I have to be off home this afternoon, but I am not sure when I will be back again to do some more jobs. It would be nice to meet another forum member who berths in Pwllheli, I already know two others.

The P bracket is quite substantial, so that is why I was shocked to see it broken. Have a look at the fitting and you will see how difficult it was to break and if I am around you can have a look at the difficult position to repair it under the tanks below the cockpit. There is no corrosion, but since it broke there has been a slight weep, probably from the strain as it broke.
 
Concerto said:
Agree the Stripper is much better than the disc type. Once before it had no problem cutting a rope that accidentally went overboard. Maybe this gave me a false sense of security. Part of my problem is having changed my car and spent more than planned, I am also looking at changing the standing rigging and furler at a cost of just over £6000. If the insurance does not cover this damage I will have to draw down a chunk of my pension fund to pay for everything as I am cash short at the moment, but asset rich. I hope my wife does not suggest sending me back to work. Fat chance of that. If the insurance does cover it then I will fit a Stripper.
Click to expand...
Does Mrs Concerto know you're thinking of getting a stripper? ;)
 
Update.

The two quotes took quite a while to be worked out. One was substantially more than the other, may be they did not want the job. Today I finally got the go ahead for the work to begin. From the three options to complete the job, access will be via the sail locker after the fridge compressor and water tank have been removed. This was the most cost effective method and has the least disturbance to the structure of the boat.

The total bill will be close to £6000. This will include the repair plus lift out, storage charges, cradle hire, moving from the marina yard to the boatyard next door, and relaunching.

Whilst in the boatyard, the mast will be removed so new standing rigging and new furler can be fitted at extra cost.
 
Last edited:
Concerto said:
The total bill will be close to £6000. This will include the repair plus lift out, storage charges, cradle hire, moving from the marina yard to the boatyard next door, and relaunching.

Whilst in the boatyard, the mast will be removed so new standing rigging and new furler can be fitted.
Click to expand...
Being used to Hamble prices, that seems staggeringly good value.
 
Ouch. But the logistics rachet up costs enormously quickly. Addressing the rigging while you are at it will mitigate the cost a bit. There is always a good side.
 
Concerto said:
Work has started on the repair. The propeller shaft is slightly bent, so this needs to be replaced. Expect a relaunch in late January.
Click to expand...

Good luck with the work. On a couple of occasions I have chosen to do work myself rather than involve the insurance company. In the fullness of time it would be interesting to know how the claim affects your next premium.
 
doug748 said:
Good luck with the work. On a couple of occasions I have chosen to do work myself rather than involve the insurance company. In the fullness of time it would be interesting to know how the claim affects your next premium.
Click to expand...
The claim has meant I lost my no claims discount on my renewal a few weeks after Concerto was lifted. I doubt if the premium will rise any further as it was an accident waiting to happen. The fisherman who used a dark blue buoy with no light or flag attached to a 20ft heavy floating rope to a dark blue float is to blame as it was on the approach to Salcombe. It was a pitch black night at about 23.30 as there was no moon. The small float would have been difficult to see in daylight, but impossible in the conditions that with a sloppy sea due to a radical wind shift in the previous few hours.

The incident has been reported to the RYA in their campaign to get fishing markers to have an identity on the buoy, plus a flag and a small LED light to increase visibility. Fishing markers are an artificial hazard to all boat owners. I have been sailing since 1967 and never caught one before. Most people who do get caught usually require the RNLI to attend to free the rope from the propeller. A broken P bracket is very rare event but shows how dangerous fishing markers can be.
 
Update.

Still not finished. The new propeller shaft was delivered ready for everything to be fitted. Then they found the P bracket was missing. The supplier had it on the shelf ready to ship with the shaft, but forgot to pack it. Other work by the engineer has caused a delay. Once the shaft P bracket has been fitted and lined up, then they call in the laminating guy as it has to be glassed in,

The new rigging and furler still has to be fitted. The old Hawk wind indicator is also being replaced as the arms are loose and cannot be fixed. Then the mast will be raised.

Everything should be completed and relaunched by the end of the month.
 
Concerto said:
Maybe we should have a sweepstake on the expected total cost including lifting and storage charges ashore. A virtual pint for the winner, unless they are local to Pwllheli.
Click to expand...

Local here!
I bought my boat out of Firmhelms yard and previous one was moored off Partingtons.

Your insurance claim might have been slightly less at Dickies Port Penryn! I had my rigging done by CJ Marine Llandegai Bangor very good price and now highly recommended.

I can't afford Pwllheli prices a bit like being on the south coast! There are too many people with all the gear and no idea but mainly in Abersoch!

I have reminded both my wife and children there are no pockets in shrouds!

Glad repairs are well underway.

Steve
 
You must log in or register to reply here.

Share this page

Top