Britons 'prefer pub culture to fitness'

[zefender]

Re: weak fingers

Since the thread began(ish) with a comment about the relative fitness levels of sail type and motory types, it seems only appropriate that it should end with a complaint from an undecided stinkie/raggie that the shower button on a sailboat is too difficult to press! Nuff sed me thinks.

 

[tcm]

Re: weak internals

aww c'mon zefender, why's he have to press funny buttons anyway? Surely sailboats don't need to be quite so basic? Even quite large sailboats 50 feet etc are fairly grim with regards WC, shower galley etc. Here's a mad, mad idea - what if they fitted some carpet in the cabins? Just seems that they go out of their way to make it a lot less hospitable than a youth hostel. Not a raggie-baiting comment, but simple observation. My other half v resistant to a sailboat until they make them nicer indoors.

 

[zefender]

Re: weak internals (in terms of style)

I tend to agree with the spirit of what's being said but couldn't resist the jibe! Obviously, a motor boat doesn't have the same beam and height constraints of a sail boat to maintain its essential purpose. Also, sail boats tend to have, for given volumes, more demand for number of berths so the space for better creature comforts is always going to be more restrictive. Matresses are often thin to enable easy access to storage below the bunks - a pain but usually a needy compromise. However, I do agree that sail boat design does seem to be very 'male' and rufty/tufty. For example, traditionalists get upset by carpet (access to bilge, rough weather wetness etc) when, for most of the time, sail boats are poodling about in gentle conditions for a short period of time. Many charter sail boats in the Med, for example, will have carpet (not shagpile admittedly). The luxury inside some of the superdoopasailboats is almost unbelievable.

Defenders of the rufty/tufty would also say that a sailboat has to be designed for a much broader range of conditions and passage type than a motor boat. Most will need to be half-decent in conditions that would have most motorboaters tucked up long before in harbour, but they also need to be suitable for club racing (spartan), short passages with family friends for a weekend (comfort) and longer distance (comfort, simple,fixable etc). Many boats these days are designed to cater for the charter market which tends to suggest utliitarian designs able to withstand the rigours of inexperienced users, at low cost of course. Any electrical comforts need to bear in mind the constraints of battery when under sail.

Maybe sailboat designers should take the hint from motorboaters and set about designing the perfect boat for fair-weather, short distances, where the emphasis was on comfort and entertainment. This is probably the majority of new sail boat buyers. trouble is, they'd get mocked by the F9 club bar lot.

But regardless of the type of boat, there's no reason why people can't customise a few bits and bobs to make them more suitable to the kind of sailing they want. Even changing the press button shower pump (now, I must get round to that!). I'm not seeking to wind stinkies up but it seems to me that many motor boasts look like vulgar caravans on the outside, but are admittedly rather nice inside, whereas as many sail boats look nice on the outside and spartan caravans on the inside. Perhaps there's a reason for that.

 

[tcm]

Re: weak internals (in terms of style)

all agreed, a nice post, z.

As regards the F9 bar lot, no real reason why an F9 means that it has to be grim or spartan. Alright, no need why it has to be grimmer and more spartan than a house of equivalent cash.

The boat rolls around a lot, so what? It doesn't get shaken or smashed at the harbour wall. Indeed, a powerboat leaping out of the air wd have more reason to resist the demand for swankier internals.

There seems to be a mood amongst sailboating that if you want a sailboat then it's only the performance, deck gear etc that are of interest, and everything else can be quite nasty. I can't tell whether a sailboat is ten or fifteen years old from the inside, except by guessing from the condition. The flimsier and nastier, then newer I would guess. There isn't even a TV in most boatshow boats.

Result of this is that other halves who want a holiday home and don't much care if it floats or not put the mockers on a sailboat, and halfway types aren't that keen either.

Yes, larger boats get there eventually, but the insides of even 80footer sailboats (i think I saw a review in Boat int'l of 80 footer Farhenheit) still seem spartan. A fifty foot bavaria is exactlty the same materials and everything as a thirty footer. I mean, spend a ton of money on a car and it can't NOT have leather seats. But you can spend much more than a million on a sailboat and even tho it accomodates 10, there won't be a decent dishwasher and washer drier. Who's gonna do those jobs then? Well, on holiday, not my missus and I can see her point entirely. Presumably the rufty tuufty lot don't go far from a restaurant, or a launderette....so they shouldn't ever be "caught out" in a F9 cos they always always land up at civilisation, even just to use the loos.

 

[ParaHandy]

Re: weak internals (in terms of style)

When inspecting sailboats, herself clambered onto a plasticky job, over rails, ropes etc pulled herself up to her full 5’ and then nearly fell over as it leaned over. Not happy. Many boats later and on the one we bought, she got on it fine and I said how stable it was? A full gamma-ray blast swept over me (the boat was on the hard) and with immunity from 30 yrs saturation bombing, the lethal blast passed over straight into the poor Ancasta sails bod who’s been in hospital ever since.

Anyway, the point is that sailboats have “facilities” which are rudimentary, spartan and uncomfortable. Not at all what she wants. The lack of female participation is why the sport is full of miserable gits, masquerading as oldsalts, and run, & written about, by masochists with no sense of humour (imho)?

 

[ArthurWood]

Re: Fred

Gawn a lawng way awf the fred, 'aven't you? Very interesting though

 

[zefender]

Re: wimmin and sailing

Sorry Authur, take the point about fred drifting....

Well we can all pick a stereotype but I'm not sure I've seen that many females at the controls of a motorboat. Handling fenders maybe, serving drinks maybe. Perhaps all those bits of domestic equipment on a motorboat simply replicate conventional gender roles at the home. I do think that I can recall rather more female achievers in sailing than motorboating. But (and this is where I do agree with you even if it means using another stereotype) they all seem prettty tough and are probably more interested in re-welding broken self-steering gear than programming a delicates wash on an on-board washing machine.

Of course, it could be argued that sail boats are rudimentary below in order to avoid women assuming domestic duties and instead getting involved in the pleasures of sailing. Unlikely I'll grant you but, where there's little/no domestic equipment, there's no need for a domestic.

I'm all in favour of better design inside a sailing boat and better equipment/comfort levels too. But why not do what you do when you buy a house - kit it out how you'd like it to be, not expect it to be pre-furnished to your own tastes and needs?

 

[tcm]

Re: house example irrelevant

well yes I *would* expect a house to be fitted out. Houses still have the same crap locks as they had years ago, no remote control anything. Cars, by contrast are all nice and sorted all comfified, even the ripsnorting "drivers" cars are quite comfy. Also, erm, having no domestic equipment doesn't mean there no domestic stuff to be done, z - who makes lunch, cleans up, washes pots, washes clothes? Or are al saily types totally used now to eating sarnies and peeing in the sea?

 

[zefender]

Re: house example irrelevant

You're right of course. I was only seeking to raise the point that domestic luxuries/necessities are not the preserve of 'her indoors/SWMBO/wifey' type observations. That stereotype is about as accurate as all raggies being grumpy old salts who don't wash.
It's a bit circular really. Is the camping mentality caused by the manufacturers/designers' ability to address modernity, the price pressure, the practicalities/multi-purpose features of sailing, or the dodgy personal habits/Boy Scout/anti-aesthetic views of sailors? Why are there not more post purchase customisations/comfort items added? Could be any of the former, or money. But I agree that above deck considerations do tend to take higher priority.


As for all cars being comfortable....been out in a Kia recently?

 

[tcm]

Re: marooned on the wrong thread

we should regroup on scuttlebutt for a more thorough discussion sometime, but use the raw materials hereabouts.

No, not been out in a Kia. Does it have carpet anywhere? Is the horn integral with the steering wheel or a separate "bolt on" job like a boat? Is there an option for remote control doors, or electric windows? Do the seats have springs in them as well as foam, or are they just sailyboat foam on a hardsurface? see the point anyway...