British seagull "sjp"

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jamesyquick

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Hello.

I have recently perched a seagull outboard. It says sjp on the framework but they guy said it was a rebuild so I am no sure what to make of it.

Anyway we filled the tank up using a 25:1 ratio fuel which we learned from the british seagull website. Whether it is a coincidence it started to smoke from the outlet hole and continue to get incredibly hot.

We have back flushed the system with clean water and it is still happening.

Where is the best place to start looking ?

Cheers.
 
Seagulls have a water pump just above the gearbox. Smoke from the outlet hole means theres no water circulating, there should be a steady stream of water. Most likely the impellor has lost its vanes, or if incorrectly assembled the water feed pipe is not located in the pump outlet. Very easy to get it wrong. You need to detach the gearbox from the leg to check the pump.
 
jamesyquick said:
Hello.

I have recently perched a seagull outboard. It says sjp on the framework but they guy said it was a rebuild so I am no sure what to make of it.

Anyway we filled the tank up using a 25:1 ratio fuel which we learned from the british seagull website. Whether it is a coincidence it started to smoke from the outlet hole and continue to get incredibly hot.

We have back flushed the system with clean water and it is still happening.

Where is the best place to start looking ?

Cheers.
Click to expand...

welcome-1.gif


SJP is an Foty plus model from somewhere between 1955 and 1967 If you go to the Saving-old-seagulls website you will be able to identify the year and month of manufacture from the serial number


later models can be modified ( carb needle change) to run on 25:1 fuel mix but it is not generally recommended to run engines pre 1967 on 25:1 due to having different ( smaller) bearings.


The water pumps are pretty basic rigid impeller pumps and do not normally cause any problems.

Are you sure it was immersed deeply enough ( say an inch or so above the water pump housing .

If it was then possibly a defective pump impeller, but that would be very unusual. Possibly a corroded, broken or incorrectly fitted water tube .

When you back flushed it where did the water come out ? It should come out of the water intake slots. If it came out of the exhaust outlet then I'd suspect the water tube.


You should find everything you might need to know about Seagulls on the saving-old-seagulls website. There is also a forum where you will be able to get help and advice from the people who know them best


IIRC factory rebuilds were marked with a letter R


Somewhere i should have service sheet that explains where and how to separate the various sections to access the water pump etc. ..... PM sent
 
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Hello.

I have replaced the impellor , gear oil , new head gasket. The fuel mix is correct. It is still not pumping water and is getting red hot. Any ideas ?

Cheers James
 
When you had the leg off to change the impeller did you try blowing through the water pipe, or better still compressed air, try it from the outlet on the block too first if the leg is on.
They are basic things, if the impeller is alright it's probably a blockage somewhere from salt/ rust/crap you an get various flushing fluids but I've used Coca-Cola and had good results, just rig up a bottle to feed into the outlet and leave it overnight, it's worth a try if blowing through doesn't work
 
jamesyquick said:
Hello.

I have replaced the impellor , gear oil , new head gasket. The fuel mix is correct. It is still not pumping water and is getting red hot. Any ideas ?

Cheers James
Click to expand...

Impeller correctly installed? It wont pump properly if it is upside down.

Water passages clear?

Joint faces "fair and level"

water delivery tube undamaged and correctly located?

You mentioned smoke issuing from the water outlet. If that was in fact exhaust gas , as opposed to smoke being produced simply due to overheating, then the finger of suspicion points to the water delivery tube.
 
You said you back flushed it. Did you get a good flow of water out of the water intake slots. If you did it pretty well eliminates any blockages. If water came out of the exhaust outlet then the water tube is holed or not correctly located.
 
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Where the impellor sits and the propeller is located is a whole different system from an sjp so because of this we have an sjp impeller which is a lot smaller than required. I cannot identify where is has come from and what parts it needs. I have pictures if someone would be willing to look for me. I am not sure how to upload them .
 
I have a 'sjp' 40 plus. It had a rubber impeller that rotted out due to a small quantity of oil leaking from the gearbox over many years and so the water stopped flowing. I replaced it with one of the later hard plastic impellers and that works fine. I can look at your pic - I also have a diagram from the Seagull manual that I could send you. Check your personal messages.
 
To up load pictures

Click on the insert image icon on the tool bar

In the "insert image" box that opens click on "from computer"

then on "select files", Navigate to the first image file you want to upload, in the window that opens, and double click on it. Repeat for selecting other images .

Click on "upload files"

They are now attached to your post as thumbnails and will be viewable once you have posted the reply .................... I hope ..... we will see


In the long term it is far far better to upload your pictures to Photo bucket and link to them there
 
jamesyquick said:
Where the impellor sits and the propeller is located is a whole different system from an sjp so because of this we have an sjp impeller which is a lot smaller than required. I cannot identify where is has come from and what parts it needs. I have pictures if someone would be willing to look for me. I am not sure how to upload them .
Click to expand...

fuel tank cap.jpgAudi.jpg ..... yes it works!
 
jamesyquick said:
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That is a "bitsa" at least the lower parts are is very much more recent than the power head. I think you will find it is one which has proper gear box oil seals and should use EP90 oil.
The clues are the extra screw above the one that holds the end cap on, the weed free prop, the clutch and the shape of the water pump housing.

You will need an impeller for a model that has these features That'll be 1984 or later model

If I were you I would contact John Williams at Saving old Seagulls for advice. He will without doubt be able to supply the correct impeller

Advice re fuel mix stands though 10:1 not 25:1 .


I am surprised at the damage to the impeller if it was the correct one for the gearbox .
 
Agree. The lower end is from an FPC and has different impeller. that is why the impeller has failed. Assuming the water feed pipe and cylinder are clear a new impeller should fix it.
 
It is helpful. Thank you lads. I have emailed John Williams to confirm it's an FPC and what the right impeller is. I am running a 25:1 ratio do you think this is correct. Some say 10:1 how do I confirm this ? James
 
jamesyquick said:
It is helpful. Thank you lads. I have emailed John Williams to confirm it's an FPC and what the right impeller is. I am running a 25:1 ratio do you think this is correct. Some say 10:1 how do I confirm this ? James
Click to expand...

It is only the needle in the carb that is different to allow the more rich petrol mixture of 25:1, although as VicS says the bearings are smaller on the earlier powerheads so ultimately are perhaps better using the more oil rich mixture.
 
jamesyquick said:
It is helpful. Thank you lads. I have emailed John Williams to confirm it's an FPC and what the right impeller is. I am running a 25:1 ratio do you think this is correct. Some say 10:1 how do I confirm this ? James
Click to expand...

You will find that recommendation to continue to use 10:1 in engines pre 1968 is confirmed and explained on the SOS website. 10:1 is therefore the correct mix for an SJP powerhead. I've already told you this!

When engines are switched to 25:1 mix the carb needle is changed from a No.3 to a No. 2. I have converted both my Seagulls ( 1973 and 1974 models ) to 25:1. Below is a picture of one of my old No. 3 needles showing how they are marked.

Theoretically you should check the needle and change back to a number 3 if you find it is a number 2.
Ask John for his advice, or post the question on the SOS forum . He might say don't worry about it use 25: i if the needle is a No.2, He might suggest using 10:1 with what ever needle is fitted or he might suggest going the whole hog and refitting a No 3 needle, if it's been changed to a No.2.

No3needlereduced.jpg
 
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