bringing lifejackets on flights

[patrickm]

My wife and I will be flying with Ryanair to Lubeck to sail back a boat bought in Germany. We need to bring our lifejackets but Ryanair tell us that we cannot take them, even as put-through luggage, because of the cylinders. Apparently large packets posted here in Ireland also go by air and using a shipping company seems a bit over the top. Can anyone advise?

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[BrendanS]

There was a thread on this a while ago

<A target="_blank" HREF=http://www.ybw.com/cgi-bin/forums/showflat.pl?Cat=&Board=pbo&Number=256579&page=&view=&sb=&o=&vc=1>here</A>

My sister who works for BA says that it's fine. Best thing to do is put it in hold luggage and don't say anything. If any one queries it, ask for a supervisor and ask them to check the regs, as it is in fact OK. Most people don't know the regs, so just say no to be on the safe side.

If you don't want to risk it, take off the cylinders and ship those separately (much cheaper than shipping life jackets) and take the lifejackets without cylinders

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[jonlaw]

I had the same problem after buying a yacht in Southampton, I flew last week from Ireland with easyjet, we packed our lifejackets in our check in luggage.
Had no problem.

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[milltech]

There's no reason why airlines shouldn't carry them has cabin baggage, though I have heard that sometimes they ask for the cylinders to be removed from the jackets. It's hard to understand the ban when there's one under every seat.

Royal Mail and Parcel Force will not carry lifejackets or re-arm kits, or for that matter flares or lithium batteries. I don't think I'd recommend doing anything like shipping them without telling the airline staff, if the cylinders go in an unpressurised part of the aircraft wouldn't that increase the chance of accidental inflation/cylinder failure?

I have to turn down a dozen requests a week because the destination has an unacceptable price tag. Isle of Wight £12, Channel Isles £60. The things can be shipped but the orders need to be big to make sense of the charges.

<hr width=100% size=1>John
<A target="_blank" HREF=http://www.allgadgets.co.uk>http://www.allgadgets.co.uk</A>

 

[milltech]

There's no reason why airlines shouldn't carry them has cabin baggage, though I have heard that sometimes they ask for the cylinders to be removed from the jackets. It's hard to understand the ban when there's one under every seat.

Royal Mail and Parcel Force will not carry lifejackets or re-arm kits, or for that matter flares or lithium batteries. I don't think I'd recommend doing anything like shipping them without telling the airline staff, if the cylinders go in an unpressurised part of the aircraft wouldn't that increase the chance of accidental inflation/cylinder failure?

I have to turn down a dozen requests a week because the destination has an unacceptable price tag. Isle of Wight £12, Channel Isles £60. The things can be shipped but the orders need to be big to make sense of the charges.

<hr width=100% size=1>John
<A target="_blank" HREF=http://www.allgadgets.co.uk>http://www.allgadgets.co.uk</A>

 

[Guest]

I flew with Ryan air from Cork to Stanstead. Showed them the lifejackets at check in. They were happy for them to go as carry on items. They were picked up by the xray machines. Again I showed security. They were perfectly happy.
Any questions just state there is one under every seat already!

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[montezuma]

I regularly take my lifejacket on aircraft. The CAA say that it's perfectly OK.

However....on one occasion last year TAP X-ray'd my hold luggage and asked me to show them the cylinder. All hell let loose. By the time the shouting had died down, things were starting to run a little tight. I was practically frogmarched through to the gate where the Captain himself was asked to adjudicate. He took one look and said "of course it's all right - what do you think we have under every seat?" My takeaway from this was that those in the know are perfectly happy, those that aren't rush to assume the worst.

I'm in discussion with the CAA Dangerous Goods Office at the moment to see if there's a foolproof way of dealing with this. I'm particularly concerned now that machines are being installed at UK airports, anyway, to X-ray *all* hold baggage, at which point the old "conceal and forget" approach will no longer work and more embarrassing frogmarching may very well ensue. If I get anywhere, I'll happily post the result.

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[BrendanS]

There's not only no reason why, but in fact explicit FAA and CAA regulations covering this. As I said, ask for a supervisor, and ask them to check the regs. It's fine.

They might not be too happy if the cylinders are rusted though!

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[montezuma]

PS One concern I have about separating bottle from jacket is exactly that - the obvious connection is lost and the jacket no longer acts as proof of use for the bottle. Particularly so, of course, if one goes in the hold and the other in the cabin.

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[castaway]

This has been asked before a while back. As Im hard at work I have just rechecked the manuals on this.. and for us (Switzerland's favourite) we allow the following:

2x small CO2 cylinders fitted to life jackets plus 2x spare, additional to this it states that it is permitted in,, carry on baggage//hold baggage// and the the airline must be advised.

Trouble is that most people are not aware of these regs and play safe by saying NO.. In our ops office Im the only person who had any idea..for obvious reasons.

Other thing is that a company like Ryan air may choose to keep there regulations very simple to streamline baggage acceptance and not have all these exceptions that national carriers bog themselves down with... maybe.

Regards Nick

<A target="_blank" HREF=http://www.yachtsite.co.uk/fairweather>http://www.yachtsite.co.uk/fairweather</A>

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[Guest]

There are two principal dangers related to carrying pressurised gas bottles and their associated equipment on aircraft.

1) Is the gas explosive or toxic?

2) Is there a risk of the device accidentally deploying during flight, and if so, what volume will be displaced?

Regarding (1), clearly there is no problem of explosion with CO2, and a risk of toxicity exists only for large cylinders in a confined space with people (eg life raft cylinders - see below).

Regarding (2), an accidentally inflating device can exert very high forces if confined. I give you an example:

On a flotilla holiday in Majorca 15 years ago, the Spanish authorities required all charter boats to carry a life raft. The flotilla operators complied, installing the rafts in the bottom of a forepeak locker, and advising they were not to be disturbed. As the fleet rounded Cape Formentor, the lead boat advised all crew to don life jackets due to strong winds and heavy seas. A boat with two couples on board sent a crew member to the forepeak to get the life jackets. In the process of pulling them out, the liferaft painter was accidentally pulled. Fortunately the crewmember was able to get back into the saloon, but the force lifted the deck from the hull and split the saloon bulkhead. The rest of the crew were unaware of the accident, and only after some minutes checked on the absent crewmember, who was found lying unconscious on the saloon floor, face a distinct grey colour. Fortunately she was revived without apparent injury. (The flotilla operators had them on a replacement boat within three hours!)

Conclusion: when a large CO2 device is inflated in a confined space, serious damage or injury can result. If the device is prevented from fully inflating, the excess CO2 is vented, and being heavier than air, fills the bottom of the surrounding space, in this instance, the hull.

Applying this to aircraft, it is reasonable and prudent to remove all gas cylinders from automatic life jackets in case they accidentally inflate. Although the inflated volume is small, in some instances it could cause damage to the aircraft. The likelihood of accidental inflation is small with hydrostatic Hammar type fuses, pehaps a little more with the older paper-type, although aircraft air tends to be dry. Reduced air pressure could cause other items in the luggage to leak, thereby releasing the paper fuse.

Liferafts are a far more serious problem on aircraft. The device and CO2 cylinder is large enough to cause critical structural damage to the airframe if inflated. The cylinder cannot be removed or deactivated without breaking the packing seal and opening the raft. I frankly would not knowingly be a passenger on an aircraft with a marine liferaft on board as cargo. Most commercial aircraft carry similar devices (the emergency exit slides), but these are especially designed and protected against accidental inflation.

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[Martin_e]

There was a posting in 2001 June -October on eithe PBO or YM which gave a link to the IATA regulations regarding this issue. (It being OK). Have flow Ryan Air and was told it was up to the captain, he said no because they were not stamped "approved by the CAA or FAA". So I lost those cylinders.
After reading the IATA regs it says that it is up to the airline. So what I do now is phone then e-mail the airline explaining wht I want to do and asked for an oficial signed letter giving me permission to carry lifejakets and spare cylinders. Has worked every time since.
Give me a bit of time a may be able to find the IATA regs on one of my PCs or you can search the forum.

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[Martin_e]

Found it on the forum. This it what I write and they can not be more helpfull.
"IATA (International Air Transport Association) Dangerous goods regulations (43rd edition effective Januay 2002)...Section 2.3.4 'Goods acceptable with operator approval as baggage'.
Quote
2.3.4.2 - Non-flammable Gas cylinder fitted into a life jacket.
Not more than two small cylinders, containing carbon dioxide or other suitable gas in Division 2.2 per person fitted into a self-inflating life jacket for inflation purposes plus not more than two spare cartridges.
Unquote

Bottom line - Check the airline involved as they have final say but they are approved for carriage as baggage unless the individual airline says no. Use the above reference when you call, as you undoubtedly will get some poor lad or lass who won't have a clue!
"

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[Gordonmc]

Ryanair are notorious for sticking to the rules... or their interpretation of them. Hence the recent bad publicity about documents needed for boarding where Ryanair accept student cards, but not national identity cards.
Save the hassle and take your jackets, but remove the cylinders. Buy new ones in Germany and you will have a set of spares.

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