Brexit? Our boat is in the Canaries

[Tim Good]

We sailing the boat down to the Canaries last year with the intention of going to Senegal and then Pacific. However we are now starting a family so decided to keep the boat in the Canaries for a year or so and then make plans after that.

I've stupidly buried my head in the sand regarding Brexit but wondering if anyone can give me a dummies guide to what our options will be given a No Deal?

 

[t21]

I don't think it'll make the slightest bit of difference from Canaries. Eventually you'll need an ESTA type clearance like for the USA.

 

[Pavalijo]

Hi Tim,
The Canary Islands are part of the Schengen Zone and so in a no deal situation you will need some form of residency or long stay tourist visa to remain more than the 90 days in 180 Schengen allowance.
I had a Google a couple of weeks ago and came up with a USA citizen who applied for longer “stay non lucrative” visa. Here is the link:
http://bucking-the-trend.com/apply-non-lucrative-residence-visa-spain-us-citizen/
With a home address (maybe a marina contract will count, not sure) you would be able to apply for a residency. There is also not very useful info on this, and links to Spanish sites, on the gov.uk website. Note, however, that pre-Brexit, if you stayed there for 183+ days in a year you would become a tax resident. Whether that is a calendar year, Spanish tax year or a rolling year I’m not sure. And I’m not sure if the non-lucrative visa prevents that.
Let’s hope we exit with a deal so that there is time to sort this out!
Regards
Paul

 

[Tim Good]

Hi Tim,
The Canary Islands are part of the Schengen Zone and so in a no deal situation you will need some form of residency or long stay tourist visa to remain more than the 90 days in 180 Schengen allowance.
I had a Google a couple of weeks ago and came up with a USA citizen who applied for longer “stay non lucrative” visa. Here is the link:
http://bucking-the-trend.com/apply-non-lucrative-residence-visa-spain-us-citizen/
With a home address (maybe a marina contract will count, not sure) you would be able to apply for a residency. There is also not very useful info on this, and links to Spanish sites, on the gov.uk website. Note, however, that pre-Brexit, if you stayed there for 183+ days in a year you would become a tax resident. Whether that is a calendar year, Spanish tax year or a rolling year I’m not sure. And I’m not sure if the non-lucrative visa prevents that.
Let’s hope we exit with a deal so that there is time to sort this out!
Regards
Paul

Cheers Paul. This is all in respect to the humans rather than the boat right? I have to return for meeting usually within a 90 day period. I suppose I was more concerned about the boat.

 

[Pavalijo]

Hi Tim, yes this relates to the crew and not to the boat. Assuming you are in EU on Brexit day then the boat will retain EU goods status - as VAT paid assuming that is the current status.

You should read other threads re the boat - if you leave EU for more than 3 years then you may have to pay VAT on returning. No certainty on what will happen if you return to U.K. more than 3 years after Brexit day!

The 90 day allowance on a no deal exit does not reset if you pop home for a few days/weeks - you are allowed 90 days in any rolling 180 day period, so if counting back 180 days from today then you must not have been there more than 90 days - hence pointing you to the long stay visa

Saludos
Paul

 

[nortada]

We sailing the boat down to the Canaries last year with the intention of going to Senegal and then Pacific. However we are now starting a family so decided to keep the boat in the Canaries for a year or so and then make plans after that.

I've stupidly buried my head in the sand regarding Brexit but wondering if anyone can give me a dummies guide to what our options will be given a No Deal?

Believe the Canaries in the Schengen Scheme but are they fully in the EU or do special regulations apply?

The Liveabord Link forum is heavily populated with threads all asking approximately the same questions and getting very similar answers so a bit of digging around the latest page of this forum will give you a good feel for the latest crop of guesses.

Guesses or more correctly, informed guesses, is all they are.

Turning to your specific situation, my guess, based on a fair amount of research but still a guess is that up until at least the end of 2020 the status quo will probably continue to exist so provided you are out of EU waters by then - no problem.

If you remain, your circumstances will probably depend on your status and location.

My research has centered on Portugal but I get the impression, Spain and other EU countries are similar.

Currently, in Portugal, it is easy for a British boat owner, living on a boat, to register for temporary (5 year) residency.

Indeed, if you intend to be in country for more than 3 months it is a legal requirement to register and non-compliance can carry a large fine. To date, this requirement is rarely if ever enforced.

Getting residency should get around the 90 day Schengen Rule in your adopted country and brings with it a number of other benefits, which are detailed elsewhere in this forum.

So far as can be established, temporary residency carries no tax implications, however, if you are in a number of EU countries for more than 183 days in a fiscal (calendar) year, you may be required to put in a tax return and pay tax on income not already taxed elsewhere.

VAT/EVA on the boat is separate issue, also covered in depth in this forum.

As the Canaries is a special case, no doubt others will come along to fine tune or correct any errors I have made.

I hope this helps.

 

[Pavalijo]

Good job Nortada came along. I assumed that as part of Spain the Canaries would be subject to VAT regulations- it seems that this is not the case
See
https://ec.europa.eu/taxation_customs/business/other-taxes/turnover-taxes-canary-islands_en

That being the case I suspect you may lose EU VAT paid status if you are there on Brexit day. If you want to retain that status then you may need to head back up to Portugal for the big day - which hopefully will be delayed to give you time. BUT - you need to check that line of thinking!

 

[Chris_Robb]

Good job Nortada came along. I assumed that as part of Spain the Canaries would be subject to VAT regulations- it seems that this is not the case
See
https://ec.europa.eu/taxation_customs/business/other-taxes/turnover-taxes-canary-islands_en

That being the case I suspect you may lose EU VAT paid status if you are there on Brexit day. If you want to retain that status then you may need to head back up to Portugal for the big day - which hopefully will be delayed to give you time. BUT - you need to check that line of thinking!

The formal position of the EU Commissions advice letter sates the in General, yachts (Union Goods - that uk as well) being in the remaining EU27, will remain Union Goods.

Yachts in the UK customs area, will LOOSE their Union goods status, and become UK Goods.

From that, Yachts in Turkey, sailing around the world etc will retain their Union Goods status.

Note the word "in General" though.

 

[ChantalReed]

The formal position of the EU Commissions advice letter sates the in General, yachts (Union Goods - that uk as well) being in the remaining EU27, will remain Union Goods.

Yachts in the UK customs area, will LOOSE their Union goods status, and become UK Goods.

From that, Yachts in Turkey, sailing around the world etc will retain their Union Goods status.

Note the word "in General" though.

Hi Chris.

Can you tell me whether you know that yachts in turkey etc will retain their union Goods Status or whether this is a guess. If you know, where have you got this information from please? I currently have a UK registered boat in Turkey. She has been in European water from 2012 until last July, but we have wintered her in Turkey this year. I am trying to work out whether we need to sail her into Greek Waters for the 12th April or not, if that is indeed D-Day.

Thank you. any advice would be gratefully received.
regards
Chantal

 

[Graham376]

My understanding is that UK boats in EU waters will retain their status, as in the first para of Chris_Robb's post. I have not read anything which indicates UK boats not in EU or UK, such as Turkey, will retain their status.

 

[ChantalReed]

Thank you, I haven't either, I have actually emailed the European Commission for clarification, if they answer I will post it here, but in the meantime, if anyone knows definitively, please do still add a comment!

 

[Chris_Robb]

Thank you, I haven't either, I have actually emailed the European Commission for clarification, if they answer I will post it here, but in the meantime, if anyone knows definitively, please do still add a comment!

My comment was based upon the fact that the letter specifically says that Vessels in the UK will become U.K. goods. It is silent on vessels anywhere else. So the presumption is that only being in UK waters causes the loss of union goods status.

Who knows. Let's hope your letter is informative.
We could be dancing on the end of a string for months though so I would be surprised if Apr 12 was still a significant date.

 

[ChantalReed]

thank you... here's hoping the Commission will respond as a little reluctant to risk a double payment of VAT on a presumption.

 

[KellysEye]

>ESTA type clearance like for the USA.

What is required for a yacht to enter American territories is a B1 B2 visa valid for 10 years. We had those.

 

[ChantalReed]

Full Response received today from the EDCC...

In summary, ALL UK registered boats NOT in EU waters (ie in UK, Turkey, Caribbean etc) on Brexit date will lose their Union Status and will thereafter if owned by non EU residents, be subject to the Temporary Importation Rules restricting the time the boat is allowed to stay in the EU to 18 months , and 0 months is the owner is also EU resident, eg British Nationals who now have tax residency in Spain/France etc (ie those who have spent more than 183 days per annum in that country) [/B][/B]

I cannot comment on Union boats in the UK as I didn't ask that question specifically, but it is my understanding that if a EU boat is in the UK on Brexit they too lose their Union Status.

Hope this helps! Here's hoping Friday is extended!!!

"Thank you for contacting the Europe Direct Contact Centre.

Where the recreational boat has been released for free circulation at import in the EU or has been manufactured in the EU, it has obtained the customs status of Union goods.

After the UK's withdrawal from the EU, any goods in the customs territory of the UK will lose their Union status and will become UK goods. The customs status of a UK boat will depend on its location at that point in time: if the boat is located in an EU port or sails in EU territorial waters, it will keep its Union status; if the boat is located in the UK (or elsewhere), its status will be that of a third-country boat when arriving in the territorial waters of the Union, i.e. it will be treated as non-Union goods. Customs controls for such UK boats will be the same as for boats coming from a third country. This was also mentioned in a Brexit preparedness note from the Commission, published on 30 January 2018: https://ec.europa.eu/info/sites/info/files/file_import/customs_and_indirect_taxation_en.pdf.

In relation to how a proof of Union Status of goods can be provided, the legal basis is in Article 199 of the Commission Implementing Regulation (EU) 2015/2447. In general, the following means of proof appear most suitable for leisure boats prior to the deployment of the Proof of Union Status system: a paper T2L or an invoice or transport document for goods with a value above EUR 15,000. For more details, please refer to the e-learning module available at the Commission's website on taxation and customs: https://ec.europa.eu/taxation_customs/sites/taxation/files/resources/documents/common/elearni ng/07-ucc_customs_status_of_goods_en.pdf."

Following the Brexit preparedness notice mentioned above, a specific notice on VAT was published on 11 September 2018: https://ec.europa.eu/info/sites/info/files/value-addedtax_en.pdf

 

[macd]

Full Response received today from the EDCC...

....restricting the time the boat is allowed to stay in the EU to 8 months

You might want to edit that "8", Chantal.

Thanks for your efforts in clarifying this. Many owners will be keenly interested, I'm sure.
In fact it might be helpful to begin a new thread to help the same information reach a wider audience.

P.S. I've just posted a link to your post on the CA web site.

 

[ChantalReed]

thanks for pointing out the error!!!

will do... I have spent ages on this having a UK registered boat which we have sailed & wintered in EU waters since 2014 and by some bizarre twist of fate and clearly without doing the necessary brexit research, decided to leave her in Turkey over the winter last year. Hence what could be a mad dash across the waters to Greece on Thursday if the EU dont agree to extend!

 

[macd]

I have spent ages on this having a UK registered boat which we have sailed & wintered in EU waters since 2014 and by some bizarre twist of fate and clearly without doing the necessary brexit research, decided to leave her in Turkey over the winter last year. Hence what could be a mad dash across the waters to Greece on Thursday if the EU dont agree to extend!

Good luck with that. Fingers crossed that such urgency won't be necessary.
If the worst comes to the worst, you could just get the ferry and pay for a night's berthing...

 

[Graham376]

......Thanks for your efforts in clarifying this. Many owners will be keenly interested, I'm sure.
In fact it might be helpful to begin a new thread to help the same information reach a wider audience.

P.S. I've just posted a link to your post on the CA web site.

Yes, thanks for that. I've copied link to Moody Owners forum.