Brexit - latest on VAT Paid Status in the event of a 'no deal' Brexit

[Bigplumbs]

No please do, it's hilarious watching the Green-Eyed monster come out against successful people spending their money. If you use an accountant, you embrace tax avoidance after all.:encouragement:

Successful is interesting you assume that I am not successful...…… Are you. Walk carefully so that chip does not fall of your shoulder

 

[Bigplumbs]

+1

Thanks for the food

 

[Mr Googler]

I never said that works !

We don,t get the daily mail or take any EN newspapers here in Switzerland so you have lost me on that one .Nether mind I suspect it’s not particularly relivent and it’s your option to elaborate further if you think it helps the thread .Suprised at the derogatory comment “ delusional “
I,am writing married to a recently retired HMRC tax investigator .

Moving on if I may ?
Seeing as this thread is Brexit related and initially focused on U.K. VAT .
Widening it quite far for some ( sorry if I loose a few ? ) I fear just bear with me ........

In the EU the IOM and CI dependency’s have sat under the wing so to speak of the mother country GB .
Similarities can be drawn with other tax efficient dependency’s either in or surrounded by other member states sat round the table at EU summits etc .A sort of friendly stand off .

I wonder if after Brexit if the Eu might challenge stuff , start pushing back etc tax policy coming out of those UK dependency’s if there’s no or minimal influence of the UK or any current lobbying from team GB is lost ??
How reciprocal are those current arrangements gonna be post Brexit ?

A shift in motivation occurs from the Eu as well arguably revengeful.
Speculation sure but I can’t see the status quo holding and suspect the Eu will drive an adverse direction of travel .

IOM was recently removed from EU grey list due to meeting EU standards.

I think we are on the “watch list” ...... same as Switzerland funnily enough.

That’s the extent of my tax knowledge

 

[Deleted User YDKXO]

I,am writing married to a recently retired HMRC tax investigator ..

Blimey, you could have warned us before she came on board! She seems far too nice anyway. HMRC tax investigator living in Switzerland? Gamekeeper turned poacher

 

[Dockhead]

If your boat was in the UK on Brexit day, you could use the TI (Temporary Import) rules in the EU for 18 months.
And I believe that you can sail out and back and have another 18 months.

Only if you are not an EU resident!

If you are an EU resident, you can't use a non-VAT paid boat in EU waters, regardless of where it is registered.

 

[MapisM]

But that's Hurricane point, as I understood it: under his assumption, if "you" is a Brit citizen, upon Brexit day he/she is not an EU resident anymore.

 

[jrudge]

Yes when / if it happens and then if it does happen under what terms if any?

If we crash out next Friday ( which is at least possible) then it would seem we are non EU citizens. Maybe!

 

[jordanbasset]

But that's Hurricane point, as I understood it: under his assumption, if "you" is a Brit citizen, upon Brexit day he/she is not an EU resident anymore.

Then they will only be allowed 90 days in every 180 in the Schengen area, seems a bit of a bummer to me

 

[Blue Sunray]

No please do, it's hilarious :encouragement:

Fair point.

 

[nortada]

Sorry it’s in Spanish but it says that you have to register with the Spanish authority for a certificate of registration if you want to stay more than 3 months (90 days) after Brexit of course.....the people have spoken!!
http://extranjeros.mitramiss.gob.es...cedimientos/CiudadanosComunitarios/index.html

Sorry for any intrusion but as a rags and flags man with a boat long term in Portugal, the issues raised in this thread have been around for some time and are not all Brexit issues. Registration is one of them.

There has always been a requirement for foreign nationals, who intend to spend more than 80 days in either Portugal or Spain, to register for temporary residency in that country. Not complying can result in a large fine but as with many things in this neck of the woods, many do not comply and it is seldom if ever envoked.

In Portugal registration for temporary residency is a very easy procedure, available to boat owners with no other accomodation. It costs €15 per person and lasts for 5 years. The big plus is it gets around the Schengen problem you are discussing in this forum.

There is much more on this whole issue in Liveaboard Link.

http://www.ybw.com/forums/showthread.php?338051-The-Truth-About-Sailing-On-The-Algarve

And there are many similar threads on life overseas now and post Brexit.

Hope this helps.

 

[Hooligan]

Ex-pat UK owners that can demonstrate previous UK VPS on returning to the UK can have import VAT relieved under Returned Goods Relief (RGR) subject to the following conditions:
o Imported normally within three years of its export (although HMRC are very flexible on this – we have seen one allowed RGR after seven years)
o Imported by the same person who exported it
o The vessel has undergone no more than normal running repairs, maintenance etc (i.e. not works to increase the value)

So if you bought a vat paid boat abroad you can’t bring it back as you were not the original exporter. Likewise if buying a med boat you can’t bring it back- many in here do buy abroad.

I can’t really see the logic as the U.K. will then get vat twice ( which if fine for the U.K. but not it’s citizens!)

Logically if I had a boat on the south coast I would export it the day before brexit. Give it union status the. Bring it back the following day and re import.

This then gives union and U.K. status which must be worth a few litres of diesel. Book your marina space now as I suspect it will prove attractive to many given the ability to then take the boat to the med or sell it to any eu buyer without hassle.

The overwhelming advice clearly looks to say that if you want your boat in the Med then get it to the Med before April 12th, from which date it has Union status and thus is deemed VAT paid. And vice versa of course. Otherwise one could be liable to to paying VAT twice as many have pointed out. This of course seems quite unfair especially as the "divorce" bill is calculated based upon the financial obligations to and from the EU (pensions, ongoing commitments etc etc). that will continue as a result of 40 years of economic and financial ties. It would not seem unreasonable to assume that for all existing boats ie one's that have paid VAT when part of an EU of 28 not 27, that there would be grandfathering, as this is the essential principle of the divorce payments we seem to be signing up for and will almost certainly have to pay even if we crash out, unless I suppose that Boris Johnson assumes control and drives the bus into the wall. However in the words of the Adam Smith, the father of capitalism - since the thread seemed to divert into a debate on such, “There is no art which one government sooner learns of another than that of draining money from the pockets of the people.” Sadly this applies to all countries, not just ours, and is a reason he also argued that one of the most productive activities one could undertake was to fairly avoid tax.

 

[KTY]

"Effect on Used boat prices"

I'm amazed there hasn't been more discussion on this - How many £M's of boats based in the UK won't be able to be sold in future to the EU unless the purchaser is willing to pay an additional 20% VAT. All the RYA focus has been on status of cruisers/Med based boats (who can operate a work around after 18 months by "Leaving for a day" either back to the UK or Turkey/Tunisia if in the Med). This is going to affect everyone with a boat in the UK when they come to sell (or buy if they want to buy a boat from the EU in future).

That's my understanding too. I'll be interested to see if Brexit will stifle the movement of boats to and from the Med. Coast2Coast might be impacted and I wonder if it will have any bearing on used boat prices?

 

[Portofino]

I’ve never really understood why a proposed Med boater would buy a U.K. boat and take it to the Med anyhow in normal circumstances anyhow .
Bit like buying a Merc or BMW and taking it to Germany ! Why not buy one there ?
What the Germans are to cars the Italians are to boats there’s a modal for everyone .

A lot do though I realise that , but it feels counterintuitive.

 

[KINGFISHER 9]

Will somebody please start and anchor thread? ….. :encouragement:

 

[Hurricane]

Will somebody please start and anchor thread? ….. :encouragement:

You mean something like
"What anchor should I fit to my UK based boat when I take it to the Med?"
That should cover it.

 

[GSL]

You mean something like
"What anchor should I fit to my UK based boat when I take it to the Med?"
That should cover it.

That will depend if you are taking it to the Med before or after Brexit.

There may well be VAT implications and that may dictate how much you may be able to afford for a new anchor.

GL

 

[Deleted User YDKXO]

"Effect on Used boat prices"

I'm amazed there hasn't been more discussion on this - How many £M's of boats based in the UK won't be able to be sold in future to the EU unless the purchaser is willing to pay an additional 20% VAT. All the RYA focus has been on status of cruisers/Med based boats (who can operate a work around after 18 months by "Leaving for a day" either back to the UK or Turkey/Tunisia if in the Med). This is going to affect everyone with a boat in the UK when they come to sell (or buy if they want to buy a boat from the EU in future).

I disagree. I think in all likelihood, there will be an agreement between the UK and EU that recognises that all goods on which UK(ie EU) VAT was paid before Brexit day remain EU VAT paid after Brexit day. If you think about it, if this were not the case, its not only boats but all other goods that would be affected. In theory then if you went on holiday to the EU after Brexit day, everything you had on you would be subject to EU VAT on entry into the EU like your car, your caravan, your camera, your watch etc etc. So its not going to happen

For goods exported to the EU from the UK on which UK VAT has been paid after Brexit day, the problem will either not exist anyway if we remain in the Customs Union or UK VAT will be reclaimable on export from the UK and then payable on import into the EU so that VAT will not be payable twice. In fact as has already been pointed out this creates an opportunity for UK boaters to buy a boat in the UK, reclaim VAT on export and keep a boat in the EU VAT not paid under temporary importation rules

 

[Hurricane]

If you think about it, if this were not the case, its not only boats but all other goods that would be affected. In theory then if you went on holiday to the EU after Brexit day, everything you had on you would be subject to EU VAT on entry into the EU like your car, your caravan, your camera, your watch etc etc. So its not going to happen

Isn't that exactly why the 18 month TI rule exists?

 

[jfm]

I disagree. I think in all likelihood, there will be an agreement between the UK and EU that recognises that all goods on which UK(ie EU) VAT was paid before Brexit day remain EU VAT paid after Brexit day. If you think about it, if this were not the case, its not only boats but all other goods that would be affected. In theory then if you went on holiday to the EU after Brexit day, everything you had on you would be subject to EU VAT on entry into the EU like your car, your caravan, your camera, your watch etc etc. So its not going to happen

For goods exported to the EU from the UK on which UK VAT has been paid after Brexit day, the problem will either not exist anyway if we remain in the Customs Union or UK VAT will be reclaimable on export from the UK and then payable on import into the EU so that VAT will not be payable twice. In fact as has already been pointed out this creates an opportunity for UK boaters to buy a boat in the UK, reclaim VAT on export and keep a boat in the EU VAT not paid under temporary importation rules

Not sure I go along with all that.

Re first para, I hope there is an agreement as you say but the UK isn't great at agreements with the EU. As Hurric says, the 18mth TI system will deal with your chattels on holidays.

Ref yr 2nd para, there is no reclaim on export. There is merely a zero rate of VAT ab initio if the goods are delivered outside the territory when new. Unless there are fundamental changes to VAT law, which I doubt will happen, then a boat used (by a normal end user consumer) for say 1 year in UK and UK VAT paid will require a second payment of VAT if then taken to EU, with no recovery of the first payment. I agree this problem probably doesn't occur if UK stays in a customs union.

 

[jfm]

I’ve never really understood why a proposed Med boater would buy a U.K. boat and take it to the Med anyhow in normal circumstances anyhow .
Bit like buying a Merc or BMW and taking it to Germany ! Why not buy one there ?
What the Germans are to cars the Italians are to boats there’s a modal for everyone .

A lot do though I realise that , but it feels counterintuitive.

Erm, you did with 50% of the boats you've ever owned