Bowlines

Please

peterb said:
Be careful of the wrist-twist method. Works beautifully when tying the bowline round yourself, or anything else with the standing part leading away from you, but it's not so good when you are tying it round anything (like a bollard or a genoa clew cringle) with the standing part leading towards you. Learn the half-reef-knot method as well.
Click to expand...

explain the half-reef-knot method.

John
 
Richard10002 said:
I've been tying bowlines for well over 30 years, and dont know what you're all talking about :)

Boy Scouts, Yachts, Merchant Navy, Mobos, Narrow Boats, Yachts again..... I tie them in a variety of ways, depending on the circumstances, and have never had one come lose, or break, so havent been aware of a difference.

Next time I get a piece of rope in my hands, I'll see how they look.
Click to expand...


turn it over and ... look its a sheet bend !!
 
another way to tie it

there is another way if i can explain it ! .. normaly the free end is put round the standing part and back through the hole either inside or outside however, you can put it round the other side of the loop and back through the hole I dont tie it this way but years ago i was told it was stronger as the theres nothing putting pressure on the standing part but..this is nearly as good as an anchor thread !!:)
 
Last edited:
Hoping I was achieveing more strength in my rope....I tied a Danforth (2nd anchor) onto an anchor rope last month in a 'real life' situation, by doubling the rope up first and then tieing a bowline with that. It was a bit cumbersome to do but I just managed it in a hope that it would give me more strength???
The rope certainly appeared to take wider, less tight turns when 'looping' into the knot.
The knot held perfectly even if the Danforth dragged accross to meet the bower.
 
Last edited:
anchors fred drift

Scotty_Twister said:
Hoping I was achieveing more strength in my rope....I tied a Danforth (2nd anchor) onto an anchor rope last month in a 'real life' situation, by doubling the rope up first and then tieing a bowline with that. It was a bit cumbersome to do but I just managed it in a hope that it would give me more strength???
The rope certainly appeared to take wider, less tight turns when 'looping' into the knot.
The knot held perfectly even if the Danforth dragged accross to meet the bower.
Click to expand...

Cant resist stirring with abig spoon the proper knot to put an anchor on is the anchor bend other wise known as the fishermans bend

http://www.scoutingresources.org.uk/downloads/knots_fishermansbend.pdf

not just as good as an anchor thread it its one !
 
snooks said:
I'll keep using a Double Fisherman knot which proved the strongest way YM tested to join two ropes together when we tested knots to destruction at Marlow Ropes. We didn't test a Carrick Bend though. A RTATHH just pulled through, and the bowline snapped where the rope doubles back on its self, the loop you break to release the bowline.

It's also a good knot to use instead of a splice (and cheaper!) and the preferred way of attaching a dyneema halyard to a shackle/clip, as dyneema is difficult to eye splce
Click to expand...
As Clifford Ashley pointed out, the qualities of a knot cannot be established by a single test. Did the YM test for security as well as strength? Ashley tested a vast range of bends (i.e. knots for joining two lengths of rope) for security and strength using special jigs; for his security tests he chose a material that would slip before it broke, and repeated them ten times for each bend.

Stooks's "double fisherman knot" appears as Ashley's #1415, "grapevine knot, also called the double english knot". The average number of jerks required to make it spill was 42.9, just ahead of the double sheet bend at 36.2. The two variants of the Carrick bend fell on either side of those figures: the Carrick bend with both ends on the same side spilled at an average of 19.6 jerks while that with ends arranged diagonally spilled at 70.8. Only #1412, "the ring knot . . . also known as the gut knot" and #1413, "the barrel knot, called the blood knot by Keith Rollo" did not spill during the 100 jerk test, although the former slipped slightly.

Although Ashley was working with natural fibres he anticipated the modifications we have had to make when using synthetic fibres. This passage emphasizes the importance of matching the knot to both the line's material and its application:

"Several years ago the Collins and Aikman Corporation, manufacturers of piled fabrics, asked me to find a knot for them that would not slip in the particularly coarse variety of mohair yarn required in automobile upholstery coverings. If this yarn once broke, it was so "springy" that, with the knots then used, it untied over and over again before it was finally woven into the cloth. The great number of knots that had to be retied slowed down production seriously. Eventually the problem was solved and the knot evolved [my emphasis] was put to use."

To return to the double fisherman - is this the one to use for joining "two substantial ropes" (as in long shore line, for example)? On grounds of strength and security it might be good in braided rope, although I doubt its suitability for a laid warp. But on the basis of a third criterion - ease of undoing - I would be reluctant to use it to join two large ropes. A double sheet bend or a diagonally-laid carrick are preferable. [Edit] Security can be increased by seizing the ends with cable ties.
 
Last edited:
snowleopard said:
I find the carrick bend has a tendency to capsize so avoid using it.
Click to expand...
Yes, it does capsize under load, and provided that you haven't left the tails too short, it forms a knot that has, in the words of Ashley, "easy bends". In this form it can be subjected to enormous loads but still be undone when the load is off. When used for very large warps and hawsers, it can be held in the uncapsized form by seizing the ends against the standing parts.
 
Bowline

Whatever is somebody doing making fast the genoa sheet to the clew of a genoa with a bowline? Of course you can get by, but it's messy.
We used the carrick in ocean towing. When we passed the original tow (9" circ SWR) we used a messenger of 3" (circ) sisal. This was left in place while towing in case we parted the main tow which would occasionally happen when shortening in. With a full length tow, which could be over a thousand fathoms, there is no small cordage available in such lengths and we had to join standard 300 fathom lengths together. This was where the carrick was used. If we had the time, and usually we made the time if the tow would be a long one (say 3000 miles) we seized the loose ends of the messenger close up to the carrick.
When driving my sailing barge (in retirement), I always had eyes spliced into the ends of mooring ropes. If making fast to a ring, one dips the eye and inserts a fid into the eye. If I used steel rope (in a lock, say, where cordage can chafe over the stone lock edge) I used wire rope, and then I insrted a short length of 18mm (we had gone metric in the interval) mild steel rod. I tried never to use cordage for making fast, having been once cut adrift at night by the U.S. Marine Corps out for a jolly in Savannah.
 
johnsail said:
[Please ]explain the half-reef-knot method.
Click to expand...

Pass the rope round an object and tie an overhand knot, as if you were about to tie a bow. Now hold the main part of the rope loosely and pull firmly on the short end. What you have now is the rabbit hole, the tree and the rabbit above ground. Pass the rabbit round the tree and back down the hole and the job is done.

While I'm in full flow, here is the slipknot method:

Take the rope and, far enough from the end to leave enough for the loop, loosely tie a simple slip knot. Pass the end of the rope round the bollard or whatever and back through the eye of the slipknot. Now capsize the slip knot by pulling out the loop and hey presto - a bowline. Easier to do than to describe and there are two ways to tie the slipknot and only one produces the right result. The benefit is that you can approach the situation with the knot 90% complete. Particularly good for one-handed work.
 
Boomshanka said:
On my dayskipper practical, I was told that the tail on the outside indicates a certain hidden message in a marina... umh... something to do with which team you bat for :o:o;) I couldn't possibly confirm either way.
Click to expand...

One of the great traditions of yachting is cruelly teaching dazed kipper candidates a load of old bollux.
 
snowleopard said:
Pass the rope round an object and tie an overhand knot, as if you were about to tie a bow. Now hold the main part of the rope loosely and pull firmly on the short end. What you have now is the rabbit hole, the tree and the rabbit above ground. Pass the rabbit round the tree and back down the hole and the job is done.

While I'm in full flow, here is the slipknot method:

Take the rope and, far enough from the end to leave enough for the loop, loosely tie a simple slip knot. Pass the end of the rope round the bollard or whatever and back through the eye of the slipknot. Now capsize the slip knot by pulling out the loop and hey presto - a bowline. Easier to do than to describe and there are two ways to tie the slipknot and only one produces the right result. The benefit is that you can approach the situation with the knot 90% complete. Particularly good for one-handed work.
Click to expand...

Well done! I wondered whether someone else would know the 'reef knot' method, and out it comes with the trip bowline as an extra!

Why do I call it the 'trip bowline'? Because way back in 1977 Des Sleightholme wrote an article in YM about that way of making the knot, and that's what he called it. As you say, there are two ways to tie the slipknot, and only one produces a bowline, but there are also two ways to pass the tail through the slipknot. Both produce bowlines, but one has the tail on the inside and the other on the outside.
 
RAI said:
Anyone got a good way of tying the bowline under tension?
Click to expand...
If you ever need to tie a bowline under tension, bear in mind the possibility that you might want to untie it under tension. I don't know about the former, but the latter is as near as dammit impossible.

Use a round turn and two half hitches to fasten a line under tension.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.

Share this page

Top