flaming
Well-Known Member
Ok, that's fair...
Bow thruster dependency increasing
- Thread starter dunedin
- Start date
Irish Rover
Well-Known Member
I have 2 engines on my cat, wide apart, and I regularly have one in forward and one in reverse for manoeuvring in confined areas. I also use this procedure for precise anchoring where there might only be a small patch of sand. I can't see how it's different to using a bow thruster on a single engined boat. As others have said, when it's available use it, if it helps.
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I used to have a very heavy long-keeled gaffer with no bow thruster but an air-cooled Lister. As the boat was steel, the engine had a rich, resonant tone, reminiscent of a Soviet tractor inside a shipping container. Maneuvering at close quarters involved frequent bursts at high revs with rudder hard over, in increasingly desperate attempts to get the bloody thing to turn around. As a noise nuisance, a modern yacht with a bow thruster is the merest whisper of a summer breeze by comparison.
ylop
Well-Known Member
Not having a thruster I've never given much though to when its right/wrong to use it. I recall Dunedin's post last year when someone chewed up a mooring pennant with one and I'll be honest having never had the option can't say for sure that I'd never have fallen in the trap, moreover if I had been hooking and a less experienced person helming they might well have opted to correct the nose that way. I don't recall it ever being discussed in RYA training - if there's a risk thats not obvious to some people that seems like its worth sharing/learning. Equally, if there is some benefit to using them for anchoring etc its probably good to share?
capnsensible
Well-Known Member
I've been very lucky. I've sailed a number of different yachts with and mostly without bow thrusters It's great to be able to coach people in how to use them. And what to do if they fail. A good bit is when someone who was a nervous boat handler gains confidence once they get the knack. Particularly on high sided larger yachts. One in particular, a Hanse 44 was a handful without sideways thrust up forward.
I've again been fortunate in being able to coach and skipper larger motor cruisers. Also including what to do when they fail. Oh, to develop skills, turn one engine off too!
However, seeing people's confidence grow on cruisers over 44 feet up to 75 feet loa is great. Good for me too being invited as a charter boat skipper on occasion being 'invited' to dock in some interesting places.
I also know, from practice, when anchoring larger MBs in busy places how a nudge from a bowthruster to get the bow paying off downwind is very useful. A nudge astern on a 35 hp yacht engine works but a nudge stern with 550 or 600 hp donk is a different ball game!
Perhaps it would help some people to go out on boats like this to help their understanding of the different techniques required?
RunAgroundHard
Well-Known Member
Most of my work boats have 6 x 5500kW thrusters. They don’t have rudders. I am sure the master will appreciate that he doesn’t know what he is doing when berthing or maneuvering. 
Chiara’s slave
Well-Known Member
I don’t suppose the phrase ‘ready about’ is heard very much on board.Most of my work boats have 6 x 5500kW thrusters. They don’t have rudders. I am sure the master will appreciate that he doesn’t know what he is doing when berthing or maneuvering.
winch2
Well-Known Member
I don't think its so much about criticism, (each to their own etc) than maybe more to do with highlighting the insidious degradation of those good old fashioned skills that most of us still quite enjoy trying to get right.
Baggywrinkle
Well-Known Member
"insidious degradation" juxtaposed with "good old fashioned" ... of course it's not "so much about criticism" ...
boomerangben
Well-Known Member
Clearly the complainants on here have never had the privilege of residing in the “thruster suite” or “taut wire suite” on a DP vessel. (I realise the taut wire reference dates me!).Most of my work boats have 6 x 5500kW thrusters. They don’t have rudders. I am sure the master will appreciate that he doesn’t know what he is doing when berthing or maneuvering.
RunAgroundHard
Well-Known Member
Still common in well service vessels, as usually there is no seabed, wellhead sonde system installed.
Reptile Smile
Well-Known Member
I'm currently chartering my first ever boat, in the Netherlands (sitting out the arse-end of Floris in Volendam, and there are plenty of worse places to be), so all the moorings are two posts and a pontoon. I'm with my family, and am the only one with any sailing experience. My wife is learning fast, but I am pretty short handed. We're on a 37' boat, which is the first boat I've ever sailed with a bow thruster. I've found it fabulous for being able to not just reassure myself that it's there if I need it, but also helpful for my wife on the bow to make her life easier when she's grappling with learning new stuff, and is reaching her 'bandwidth limit' pretty quickly. The combination of unfamiliar mooring style, unfamiliar boat, inexperienced crew, and some pretty heavy cross-berth blows, mean I'm not feeling a great deal of guilt about my occasional use of the bow thruster. I also wouldn't dream of using it in wide open waters, in the anchoring scenario, etc, described earlier.
I did come to the opinion that there seems to be three school of thought in approaches to sailing: the RYA way (AKA: everything that's wrong with golf clubs), the old timer salty sea dog way (AKA: you can make a judgement on someone's sailing ability by the time at which they unfurl their ensign), and the Utilitarian way (AKA: if it's safe and doesn't impinge on others, do whatever you need to do to get the outcome you want). I could not care less if someone sails around the place with the fenders down. I also would not assume that they didn't know what they were doing. I would be doing my level best to sail in the way that I wanted, keeping myself and those around me safe, and hopefully enjoying the process in the meantime.
I did come to the opinion that there seems to be three school of thought in approaches to sailing: the RYA way (AKA: everything that's wrong with golf clubs), the old timer salty sea dog way (AKA: you can make a judgement on someone's sailing ability by the time at which they unfurl their ensign), and the Utilitarian way (AKA: if it's safe and doesn't impinge on others, do whatever you need to do to get the outcome you want). I could not care less if someone sails around the place with the fenders down. I also would not assume that they didn't know what they were doing. I would be doing my level best to sail in the way that I wanted, keeping myself and those around me safe, and hopefully enjoying the process in the meantime.
RunAgroundHard
Well-Known Member
There is no RYA way, never has been, they have a syllabus, that's it. For example, if you look at their information on MOB, you will see multiple ways are mentioned. Calculating height of tide, there are a few different ways offered, same with fixing your yachts position et cetera.
Stemar
Well-Known Member
Well, I'm definitely in the Utilitarian camp, though I have to admit to the occasional old timer salty sea dog moment...
ylop
Well-Known Member
Not only is their no "RYA way" but to me the issues that put me off a lot of sailing clubs would be the same ones that put me off golf clubs and seem like flag etiquette type stuff, whilst the utilitiatian way you describe strikes me as very mich the old sea dog... unless of course there's aspects of corner cutting where you just don't know the risks...
Blueboatman
Well-Known Member
Well I had radar on my last boat and I turned that on twice in 12 years . And jolly useful it was
My only reservation against a BT as with radar is the incremental impact on performance under sail.
And something else to go wrong
And there is so much stuff and so many systems on a modern boat to maintain, keep the water away from and to service periodically (and replace @ end of service life) .
It’s a rich man’s game I tell ya
Fun though when it all works
My only reservation against a BT as with radar is the incremental impact on performance under sail.
And something else to go wrong
And there is so much stuff and so many systems on a modern boat to maintain, keep the water away from and to service periodically (and replace @ end of service life) .
It’s a rich man’s game I tell ya
Fun though when it all works
newtothis
Well-Known Member
You missed the fourth school of thought: the YBW way, which is that everyone else is wrong, and how dare you come here with your reasonable propositions.
Mark-1
Well-Known Member
I haven't read all of the thread but...
I've chartered a fair bit, and if a bow thruster is fitted I use it, perhaps over use it, and of it isn't fitted, I don't. The outcomes seem to be the same.
I've chartered a fair bit, and if a bow thruster is fitted I use it, perhaps over use it, and of it isn't fitted, I don't. The outcomes seem to be the same.
johnalison
Well-Known Member
We did a lot of box mooring, in the Netherlands and Baltic. A couple of tips.
When you have an awkward cross-wind, choose a box adjacent to another boat if possible. If you don't make it to the pontoon you will merely rest against the other boat and can sort it out from there.
If in doubt, it is often easier to stop once half the boat is in the box, at an angle if necessary. You can sort out the stern lines in your own time and then move forwards when you are ready.
Reptile Smile
Well-Known Member
Thanks John - very helpful. I've generally taken the approach that stern to would be preferable, but certainly easier to get in bows to if the wind isn't helping, and the bow thruster has been a great help in maintaining control at slow speed when it otherwise would have blown off. But as you say, as long as sufficiently fendered, then coming to rest against the adjacent boat (particularly in challenging conditions) feels a like a forgiveable sin. It's also been notable how friendly and helpful others around have been, always ready to take a line ashore to help out.