Bosun's chair attachment

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Graham_Wright

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www.mastaclimba.com
I am in the middle of the usual nonsense from the Boat Show health and safety officer.

He is not a sailing person and has little knowledge of sailing matters.

His latest criticism of our MastaClimba demonstration rig is that the chair is secured to the halyard with a "hand tied knot".

What so others do? Does anyone have a machine that performs the task? I use a fisherman's bend or a doubled up figure of eight.

I used to use a bowline until someone claimed they could vibrate loose (which I believe).

Comments and alternatives welcomed.
 
Presumably he wants some sort of shackle which has been tested and certified but then how do you attach that to the halyard? I'd stick to one knot
 
I confess to using a bowline, which I tie mechanically (by which I mean - I can tie it eyes closed or behind my back). I have never had a bowline, in any application in which I have been involved come undone. I enjoy mast work, do it frequently - and I'm still here to tell the story. Vibrate loose - exactly how long do people spend up masts that vibration is an issue?

None of this is of any value to your H&S man as I come from Oz (though my technique was learnt in the UK).

Would you H&S man be comfortable with an eye splice and a locking carabiner, locking shackle (or wired) or safety hook (as used on a tether).

I have this suspicion a machine to tie a bowline would be too big - and even if it were small - it would still be a bowline. Which knot does he suggest - I'll look out for a machine :)

I might have thought the H&S man would have all the answers, I'm interested = what wa his suggestion?

Jonathan
 
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His job isn’t to provide “criticism”, so what’s he actually saying here?

“The chair is secured to the halyard by a knot” is just an observation. It’s true - and...?

If that’s really all he said, my own reaction would be to agree with him that yes, it is, and then proceed to the next point. Perhaps he has also noted that your socks are yellow and today is Tuesday. For anything else to happen then he’s going to have to actually state a potential hazard rather than just make idle observations.

The only possible thing I can anticipate is the risk of the knot being tied incorrectly. That’s a legitimate thing to put on a risk assessment, but that doesn’t mean you can’t do it, just that you need to address the risk. How you address it depends on what you actually do with your rig - do you hoist punters up and down with it, or just demo it yourself? For example if you let prospective purchasers try it out, perhaps including doing some of the setup themselves, then you definitely need to check that they’ve tied the knot correctly before you let them start lifting. The need for that check is exactly the kind of thing a risk assessment is supposed to identify, it’s not just a pointless paperwork exercise.

If you just tie it once when you set up in the morning and then lift yourself up and down all day, I’d have thought the entry could be addressed by a couple of sentences about your training and competence to make the knot correctly, and a quick visual inspection before each lift to make sure some idiot hasn’t untied and incorrectly re-tied it while you went for a pee.

There are hundreds or thousands of climbing instructors lifting novices and schoolkids up and down on harnesses tied with a double figure-8, often by the punter themselves (then checked), so the basic principle is well proven over many decades. You just need to say so in the proper form.

Pete
 
I use the figure of eight one that the climbers use. How do tree surgeons attach themselves? They must have to pass the H & S person's inspection?
 
From the world of climbing, we would always use a doubled-up figure eight. We would never tie a figure 8 and then clip into it with a carabiner. Why not use a climbing harness, tied in as per the manufacturers instructions with a double figure 8 and if he objects and requires you to use a carabiner to attache the harness to the rope, simply ask for a written instruction, as it is agaisnt the manufacturers advice and when it fails, it needs to be on his insurancem not yours.

Video here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H1cEWPx2xnA

The theory is that even a screwgate carabiner, the locking screw could be accidentally left loose, and adding a carabiner to the chain is simply another weak point.
 
Boathook said:
As my halyards have an eye splice on the end I use for my 'harness' I use an mountainers locking carabiner. Could you do the same?
Click to expand...

Not as safe as a double figure 8, the eye splice could fail, the carabiner could fail, you have added two "links" to the chain, each of which has a (remote) chance of failure.
 
Personally I often use the snapshackle or whatever nice strong, attachement is already there. But I tape them to avoid mishaps.
I don't advise anyone to do the same.
If I had to use a knot, I'd use one I was very familiar with, like a bowline. Then I'd add another half hitch and maybe tape it.
You could add a cable tie perhaps. But that means you couldn't undo it if needed.

I take the view that it's not impossible for me to want to remove one of the lines on my harness. Maybe due to a big tangle in the halyard tail or a riding turn on the winch.

For a show environment, exposed to the prying eyes and fingers of the grubby public, there is something to be said for 'tamper proof'.
 
Personally I'm perfectly happy with my own bowline, tied the sailors fast twist-the-wrist way not the slow boy scout rabbit-and-tree way, though both achieve the same knot. I've never known a properly tied bowline come undone. My son though, who had when younger a climbing instructor qualification, insists on doubled figure of eight, which certainly seems equally secure but takes far longer to tie.

I would not haul anyone wle up a mast with a carabiner or snapshackle or wire in the load bearing system. In the days when my own boat had wire-spliced-to-rope main and genoa halyards I did get myself hauled up on these, but with an all-rope spinnaker halyard as backup. I also liked a nice testing bounce on the halyard when a couple of feet off the deck!
 
Minn said:
I plead guilty to using a taped over snap shackle but I do use a safety line on a separate harness. I’ve never known a bowline to fail.
Click to expand...

I'm afraid that I too use a shackle, with my wire halyard. It may be that the wire-rope join is suspect but I haven't heard of one failing, so I will continue, with the topping-lift as backup as usual. However, my shackle is not a snap shackle but a stout one with captive pin.
 
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