Kukri
Well-Known Member
Airlines differ in their reserve fuel policy. When I lived in Beijing I knew the then Airbus rep to Air China, who used to tear his hair out over the amount of spare kerosene they carted round the skies with them!
Boeing 777 passenger liner assists in Mayday rescue
- Thread starter lenseman
- Start date
FWB
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I've flown Ryanair. I think they are brilliant. A very slick operation.
It's just a bus service and for short hops around Europe they are perfect.
Ex-SolentBoy
Well-Known Member
Really? What is the mandated reserve?
90 minutes extra doesn't sound a lot to me for a flight from Vancouver to Sydney which is about 14 hours. Of course, they were at a lower level for a while, but still.
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FWB
N/A
They had to arrive at SYD with enough fuel to hold for 15minutes and divert to their planned alternate, probably Brisbane. That is AFTER flying around looking for the yacht.
That's why it's surprising that they had so much extra fuel onboard.
It could be that they were assured of a landing at SYD and used different rules, we used to have to use this when flying to Bermuda in TriStars, we had to commit some time out because we couldn't go around and fly to our alternate, JFK.
Maybe they had lots of fuel due to enroute single engine diversion, could be. I haven't flown for years, aviation part of my brain is rusty.
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[70521]
Well-Known Member
I take it you dont follow PPRUNE?
FWB
N/A
My comment is from a passenger's perspective.
mlines
Well-Known Member
I note from the news reports that it did NOT spend 90 minutes searching. It was already running late due to the headwinds etc. It was probably carrying extra fuel to cope with this forecasted weather en-route.
"We're really pleased we could help," spokesman Peter Fitzpatrick said, adding that weather conditions - and not the diversion - had been the main cause of delay"
"We're really pleased we could help," spokesman Peter Fitzpatrick said, adding that weather conditions - and not the diversion - had been the main cause of delay"
Ex-SolentBoy
Well-Known Member
Thanks for that. I only ever flew small stuff and we fuelled up to be as light as possible. Just enough to take off, get into the overhead, scare ourselves for ten minutes, land and taxi back to the fuel pump!
If I saw anyone in distress they were on their own.
Piers
Well-Known Member
Hi dylan. I used to fly the 707 for BOAC/BA. Once, when crossing from JFK to LHR we heard a Piper Arrow give Mayday over the ocean stating that his undercarriage had 'suddenly come down' and he couldn't retract it. His fuel burn had therefore increased and he didn't have enough fuel for Shannon (his destination). He was trying to call up one of the Ocean Station Vessels (OSV) that used to be at various positions on the sea (every 10 degrees from memory).
The OSV couldn't hear him so I acted as a relay. His intention was to fly to the OSV and ditch. When I gave him the reported sea state, some 15m primary swell with a nasty secondary swell and force 7 wind, his voice just faded as he realised his chanes of survival were less than minimal.
A few moments later, an RAF Nimrod (Ascot callsign) came on the air and offered to find him and escort him the quickest route to Shannon and if he ditched they'd drop a raft for him and organise a pick up. The Piper pilot's voice picked up as you can imagine and then began a follow my leader for Shannon.
Soon, we were out of range, but in the Telegraph the next day was a small column inch stating the pilot of an Arrow, escorted by an RAF Nimrod, had managed to land safey at Shannon, breathing only fumes...
ChrisE
Well-Known Member
For those in the uk, itv are airing a piece about this on news at 10.
lenseman
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Although the original thread was hijacked this is the story from the skipper who capsized and has been rescued:
A Queensland yachtsman has been tearfully reunited with his family in Sydney after a week-long ordeal stranded off the coast of New South Wales.
Glenn Ey hugged his crying mother when he set foot on land in Sydney early this morning.
On dry land: Glenn Ey arrives in Sydney after being rescued from his stricken yacht
The 44-year-old Queenslander spent days trying to outlast an enormous storm before his yacht was rolled by a monster wave last Friday.
"Let me assure you when a monster wave picks you up and just dumps you like that it's very frightening."
He says the boat was swamped and cracked, and his mast was split in four.
"You do think your number's up - there's no question about that," he said.
"When a monster wave picks you up and just dumps you like that it's very frightening," he said.
"The noise is unbelievable - a mast doesn't crack without any noise it's like an explosion and the hull cracked and things like that.
"It's very frightening and I can assure you I'll be happy to sit under a tree for a while."
A current had pulled Mr Ey's 11-metre yacht 270 nautical miles out to sea, and after four days he ran out of fuel and set off his emergency beacon.
Two passenger planes confirmed his location off Wollongong before Police Rescue boat Nemesis reached him that night.
Rolled by massive wave: Glenn Ey's yacht as photographed by a search and rescue plane
It spent 24 hours returning him to Sydney through five-metre waves and high winds in a rescue operation lasted 43 hours in total.
Mr Ey had left Sydney for Eden on the south coast two weeks ago.
http://www.abc.net.au/news/2012-10-18/yachtsman27s-emotional-return-to-land/4319800
A Queensland yachtsman has been tearfully reunited with his family in Sydney after a week-long ordeal stranded off the coast of New South Wales.
Glenn Ey hugged his crying mother when he set foot on land in Sydney early this morning.
On dry land: Glenn Ey arrives in Sydney after being rescued from his stricken yacht
The 44-year-old Queenslander spent days trying to outlast an enormous storm before his yacht was rolled by a monster wave last Friday.
"Let me assure you when a monster wave picks you up and just dumps you like that it's very frightening."
He says the boat was swamped and cracked, and his mast was split in four.
"You do think your number's up - there's no question about that," he said.
"When a monster wave picks you up and just dumps you like that it's very frightening," he said.
"The noise is unbelievable - a mast doesn't crack without any noise it's like an explosion and the hull cracked and things like that.
"It's very frightening and I can assure you I'll be happy to sit under a tree for a while."
A current had pulled Mr Ey's 11-metre yacht 270 nautical miles out to sea, and after four days he ran out of fuel and set off his emergency beacon.
Two passenger planes confirmed his location off Wollongong before Police Rescue boat Nemesis reached him that night.
Rolled by massive wave: Glenn Ey's yacht as photographed by a search and rescue plane
It spent 24 hours returning him to Sydney through five-metre waves and high winds in a rescue operation lasted 43 hours in total.
Mr Ey had left Sydney for Eden on the south coast two weeks ago.
http://www.abc.net.au/news/2012-10-18/yachtsman27s-emotional-return-to-land/4319800
grumpy_o_g
Well-Known Member
That's a L/D ratio of about 23:1 which means only 20,000 = lbf at econ cruise. That's pretty impressive.
The particular Boeing in this incident is rated ETOPS-330; that means it can go 330 mins from it's alternate on a single engine. I'd guess it's the long stretch to Hawaii that needs the extra fuel. A headwind on one engine can seriously up the fuel-flow.
Good to see the chap safely home in one piece too.
DAKA
Well-Known Member
Although the original thread was hijacked this is the story from the skipper who capsized and has been rescued:
A Queensland yachtsman has been tearfully reunited with his family in Sydney after a week-long ordeal stranded off the coast of New South Wales.
Glenn Ey hugged his crying mother when he set foot on land in Sydney early this morning.
On dry land: Glenn Ey arrives in Sydney after being rescued from his stricken yacht
The 44-year-old Queenslander spent days trying to outlast an enormous storm before his yacht was rolled by a monster wave last Friday.
"Let me assure you when a monster wave picks you up and just dumps you like that it's very frightening."
He says the boat was swamped and cracked, and his mast was split in four.
"You do think your number's up - there's no question about that," he said.
"When a monster wave picks you up and just dumps you like that it's very frightening," he said.
"The noise is unbelievable - a mast doesn't crack without any noise it's like an explosion and the hull cracked and things like that.
"It's very frightening and I can assure you I'll be happy to sit under a tree for a while."
A current had pulled Mr Ey's 11-metre yacht 270 nautical miles out to sea, and after four days he ran out of fuel and set off his emergency beacon.
Two passenger planes confirmed his location off Wollongong before Police Rescue boat Nemesis reached him that night.
Rolled by massive wave: Glenn Ey's yacht as photographed by a search and rescue plane
It spent 24 hours returning him to Sydney through five-metre waves and high winds in a rescue operation lasted 43 hours in total.
Mr Ey had left Sydney for Eden on the south coast two weeks ago.
http://www.abc.net.au/news/2012-10-18/yachtsman27s-emotional-return-to-land/4319800
You Raggies are a tough breed
I would have set my EPIRB off when the boat was demasted and 'punctured' , I wouldnt have relied on 30hp getting me home in those currents / conditions.
Little disappointed the authorities felt the need to 'see' a soul in distress before sending help following a clear distress call from EPIRB including coordinates.
Perhaps we need to carry two EPIBS, setting one off a few hours after the first in order to confirm distress.
prv
Well-Known Member
From the photo it looks like he'd managed to set up some kind of jury mast. So as well as setting off the EPIRB, he had a self-rescue plan in hand if required. Good skills.
Pete
Pete
Neeves
Well-Known Member
You Raggies are a tough breed
I would have set my EPIRB off when the boat was demasted and 'punctured' , I wouldnt have relied on 30hp getting me home in those currents / conditions.
Little disappointed the authorities felt the need to 'see' a soul in distress before sending help following a clear distress call from EPIRB including coordinates.
Perhaps we need to carry two EPIBS, setting one off a few hours after the first in order to confirm distress.
277nm offshore is quite a long way to specially send an aircraft when there are 2 (commercial) aircraft about to fly overhead (and a commercial vessel also on its way). I'm not sure how long it takes to get an emergency aircraft 'up and running' and cover the 277nm - but calling in someone who is there seems, well, quicker, cheaper - and was proven the right call. So no need for 2 EPIRBs - just rely on authorities to use all resource at their disposal.
But they do seem to breed em tough.
Jonathan
lenseman
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You Raggies are a tough breed
. . . . . Little disappointed the authorities felt the need to 'see' a soul in distress before sending help following a clear distress call from EPIRB including coordinates. . . . . . .
I think that there was a little confusion due to the fact that there were three 'shouts' on 406 in similar area of the Tasman Sea on that day, all within 10 miles of each other?
TASMAN SEA.
DISTRESS SIGNAL RECEIVED ON 406 MHZ IN 34-40.1S 156-33.4E AT 152139Z OCT. VESSELS
IN VICINITY REQUESTED TO KEEP A SHARP LOOKOUT, ASSIST IF POSSIBLE. REPORTS TO RCC AUSTRALIA,
followed by
TASMAN SEA.
1. VESSEL, THREE PERSONS ON BOARD, CAPSIZED AND ADRIFT IN 34-40.1S 156-33.4E AT 152139Z OCT. VESSELS IN VICINITY REQUESTED TO KEEP A SHARP LOOKOUT, ASSIST IF POSSIBLE.
and
TASMAN SEA.
1. S/V STREAKER, ONE PERSON ON BOARD, DISMASTED AND ADRIFT VICINITY 34-45.2S 156-39.7E AT 160240Z OCT. VESSELS IN VICINITY REQUESTED TO KEEP A SHARP LOOKOUT.
We know that the solo sailor aboard Streaker has been rescued, I hope the other two shouts were a false alarms?
What would you do as watch-keeper at RCC Australia?
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prv
Well-Known Member
I think that there was a little confusion due to the fact that there were three 'shouts' on 406 in similar area of the Tasman Sea on that day, all within 10 miles of each other?
TASMAN SEA.
DISTRESS SIGNAL RECEIVED ON 406 MHZ IN 34-40.1S 156-33.4E AT 152139Z OCT. VESSELS
IN VICINITY REQUESTED TO KEEP A SHARP LOOKOUT, ASSIST IF POSSIBLE. REPORTS TO RCC AUSTRALIA,
followed by
TASMAN SEA.
1. VESSEL, THREE PERSONS ON BOARD, CAPSIZED AND ADRIFT IN 34-40.1S 156-33.4E AT 152139Z OCT. VESSELS IN VICINITY REQUESTED TO KEEP A SHARP LOOKOUT, ASSIST IF POSSIBLE.
and
TASMAN SEA.
1. S/V STREAKER, ONE PERSON ON BOARD, DISMASTED AND ADRIFT VICINITY 34-45.2S 156-39.7E AT 160240Z OCT. VESSELS IN VICINITY REQUESTED TO KEEP A SHARP LOOKOUT.
Surely the first two are the same incident? Time and position are identical. I guess the first is recording that the distress transmission was received, the second giving more details about what the incident actually was.
Pete
chanelyacht
Well-Known Member
That would be my thinking - second instance of the first two couldn't be from a beacon - the nature of distress and number of persons is known. I would guess the second alert is from an inmarsat terminal or MF DSC call.
Neeves
Well-Known Member
If venturing offshore it is a requirement for vessels in Australia to carry a current EPIRB. Our EPIRB's are registered with AMSA. The registration provides AMSA with emergency telephone numbers etc. The details of each EPIRB are updated, I think its every 2 years. Prior to going offshore we are encouraged by AMSA to log our voyage, times, dates, destination, POB etc. We do this through the AMSA website. I do not know how many 'bother'. Other than buying the EPIRB there is no cost of registration. We also have a facility to log onto, with VHF, the voluntary Marine Rescue (MR) organisation with voyage detail. For all of NSW we effectively have a 24hr VHF coverage. Many people use the service. Other parts of Australia have 24hr VHF coverage but it can get patchy, big country and in some places - no people. The log onto MR, NSW, is usually VHF but they also monitor 24 HF distress. There are other voluntary and commercial organs who offer a HF voyage logging service one of which covers all of Australia (and is in fact AMSA's provider of nationwide rescue HF). It depends on where you are - but the HF services are well used. There is no cost incurred in logging on by radio (though radio operators are meant to be licensed and we have a nominal HF licence fee).
Rescues are usually a combination of MR, Police and AMSA (and in this case and commonly the case - anything commercial in the area - AMSA is responsible for a huge bit of ocean and a lot of our resource is committed to rescueing refugee boat people off our NW coast, who surprisingly sometimes set off EPIRBs) with AMSA the coordinator.
It is not impossible to define that an EPIRB alert is genuine, have information on the numbers of people involved etc, simply by making a few phone calls. AMSA has authority to command, and commonly does, commercial operators in the area to effect (or at least support) the rescue - if deamed feasible and safe by the 'skipper' of the commercial operator.
Jonathan
Rescues are usually a combination of MR, Police and AMSA (and in this case and commonly the case - anything commercial in the area - AMSA is responsible for a huge bit of ocean and a lot of our resource is committed to rescueing refugee boat people off our NW coast, who surprisingly sometimes set off EPIRBs) with AMSA the coordinator.
It is not impossible to define that an EPIRB alert is genuine, have information on the numbers of people involved etc, simply by making a few phone calls. AMSA has authority to command, and commonly does, commercial operators in the area to effect (or at least support) the rescue - if deamed feasible and safe by the 'skipper' of the commercial operator.
Jonathan