Boatyard: no sanding

[Go with the flow]

I am the first to admit that health and safety sometimes strangles the common sense approach but shamrock quay are adopting absolutely the right approach, I imagine Hundreds of boats over many years have scraped off and sanded down various Toxic substances straight onto the floor . Working in this on a daily basis would I am sure creat an annoying cough.
My boat has been on the receiving end, a couple of years ago I had finished polishing my hull and top sides ashore, I came back down 3 weeks later to find blue anti foul dust covering the decks and streaking down the sides of the hull after a rain shower, all caused by an owner who had dry sanded nearby without an extraction device. The owner shrugged his shoulders and the marinas response "was"it's a boat yard, that's what happens", I must add this was not at Shamrock quay, Progress is a wonderful thing, and I am glad to see Them take a lead on this.

 

[Marine Reflections]

Think it boils down to education and awareness. I doubt anyone would want to be seen as creating a problem for others, they are simply not aware of the levels of toxicity.

It's certainly a very welcome move by Shamrock and for one I am also very glad to see them take a lead on the subject, MDL marinas are without a doubt my favorite to work in, for reasons such as this.

Thank goodness for forums, where education and awareness on the subject can become widespread.

Sanding toxic materials = extraction.

 

[PhillM]

Think it boils down to education and awareness. I doubt anyone would want to be seen as creating a problem for others, they are simply not aware of the levels of toxicity.

It's certainly a very welcome move by Shamrock and for one I am also very glad to see them take a lead on the subject, MDL marinas are without a doubt my favorite to work in, for reasons such as this.

Thank goodness for forums, where education and awareness on the subject can become widespread.

Sanding toxic materials = extraction.

Ok let's take the education route, is it just anti foul that's a problem?

Today I hand sanded varnish and yesterday, the topsides. Varnish was skippers 2 pack and topsides eppifanes nautiforte. Any issues I should know about?

 

[Marine Reflections]

Ok let's take the education route, is it just anti foul that's a problem?

Today I hand sanded varnish and yesterday, the topsides. Varnish was skippers 2 pack and topsides eppifanes nautiforte. Any issues I should know about?

Firstly, it's nothing personal, sanding down some varnish and paint is hardly handling plutonium, but it is the very thinnest edge of a very big wedge for those of us who live, work and play in a marina environment.
Of course this is just one man's opinion, people are going to do whatever they see fit unless there are rules and regulations in place it would seem. As much as I would like to be in a position to teach or educate, don't look this way too hard, I'm just some bloke who tries to stay safe. I have a daughter to stick around as long as I can for and it would devastate me to learn I have caused others illness or a condition as a result of my working, yet alone create some dust that settles on their boat.

Anti foul is certainly one of the biggest offenders when it comes to dry sanding, although manufacturers have worked hard to remove or replace the higher toxic components of the past and things are improving as any forward thinking industry would, to put it into perspective however - anti fouling is designed to inhibit growth. Breathing it in is not recommended to say the very least, nor is allowing any absorbing via skin contact or through the eyes in either wet or dry form.

When it comes to 2 packs, varnishes and paints, the manufacturers are these days more helpful with application techniques, drying guides and so on, even as far as recommending what level of personal protection one should take whilst applying.
As an example here is the data sheet for Epifanes Multiforte http://www.boatpaint.co.uk/datasheets/Epifanes/Epi MSDS/EPIFANES MSDS/Epifanes Multiforte.pdf

What it won't delve into is what level of risk (if any) is posed from the removal of said products, I would have thought the variants are too great, though I doubt very much any of the manufacturers would advise removal without relevant personal protection and dare I say - the protection of others nearby.

The issues that would have an effect on others around you (that you should know about) are highlighted in this thread, but are not listed in any detail beyond what one would consider common sense and consideration. Though I can't see any difference between hand sanding and machine sanding if the same amount of product is removed and released into the air.
On a personal protection level, the removal of both the skippers 2 pack varnish and the epifanes nautiforte paint would require at the very least a decent particulate filter and goggles to be worn, though I would personally choose a full face that allowed nothing in but oxygen.
I would also highly suggest gloves and a protection suit that included a hood.

There are still going to be hundreds of blue smurfs happily sanding away underneath boats oblivious to the dangers to themselves and others, but the move by MDL is at least a step in the right direction.

Tony

 

[PhillM]

Thanks Tony, I wasn't taking it personally. Thank you for a detailed and helpful post.

I've been in the habit of wearing sunglasses to avoid dust and a boiler suit to keep my clothes clean. I will give a dust mask thingy some thought.

It is worth saying I'm not removing the products, just scratching them up with 240 grit ready for the next coat, but nonetheless it does get dusty.

Thanks again,
Phill

 

[Iain C]

And let's not forget the other annoying thing...timing.

I've been there when I've worked on my boat all through the winter (including the long drive down, staying all weekend on board with ice on the decks, obviously no functioning loo and minimal daylight) doing some big structural jobs. With lift in day looming, the jobs list gets shorter, the weather starts to brighten, and it's finally time to varnish/oil woodwork, polish topsides and re-apply antifoul and boot top, and give her a bloody good clean below.

At this point, Harry the Hibernator, who no-one has seen for the whole bloody winter, emerges from his seasonal slumber 2 minutes down the road, and decides that now that things are brightening up, it must be the perfect time to start sanding his whole bloody boat...GRRRRRRRRRR!

 

[Marine Reflections]

Thanks Tony, I wasn't taking it personally. Thank you for a detailed and helpful post.

I've been in the habit of wearing sunglasses to avoid dust and a boiler suit to keep my clothes clean. I will give a dust mask thingy some thought.

It is worth saying I'm not removing the products, just scratching them up with 240 grit ready for the next coat, but nonetheless it does get dusty.

Thanks again,
Phill

You are very welcome Phill.
Yes, certainly a huge difference in simply keying a surface in prep and complete removal.

With the dust masks; I've always found that the combination of a paper type particulate mask and goggles to be a pain. The mask becomes uncomfortable after a while and goggles steam up quickly as you increase the elbow grease.

I found the 3M full face masks ideal as the soft rubber is comfortable on the face so can be worn for hours at a time without discomfort, there is also no fogging of the mask once you get hot and it of course covers breathing and eye protection in one.
They are a bit of an investment at around £100, but what price can you put on your eyes and lungs?
Considering (IMO) the main reason people don't mask up is probably due to discomfort or vision problems, the full face makes sense.
There are particulate filters for jobs such as sanding or gas and odour for when painting, just switch over to the relevant cartridge. Also handy if a crew mate has done a stinker in the heads and there is no available time for the half life to deplete.
http://solutions.3m.com/wps/portal/...=5551860+8690968+3294355800+3294529207&rt=rud

You might also find this handy for dry sanding / prep, it is a sanding block that allows a hoover to be attached on the back. The extraction hose is very lightweight and a little Henry hoover with a good bag will have enough filtration to absorb all the dust without blowing any out into the surrounding area.
The other advantage with extraction is the particles are directed up into the hoover and therefore don't clog the working face, making one sheet of sanding material last a very long time in comparison to non extraction.

Of course these won't really help in the small intricate areas, but for prepping topsides etc they are superb, more so if you didn't want or need to stretch to the extent of a sanding machine and extraction set up.

http://www.decoratingdirect.co.uk/v...ANET_DUST_EXTRACTION_STARTER_KIT_80_X_230_MM/


Tony