Boats papers, Ownership Documents.

Shiver Metimbers

Shiver Metimbers

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I am very close to making an offer on a yacht and have just had a thought, what if the boat is stolen!

A few questions:

Boat's papers and or ownership documents, do these exist?

How is a Yacht identified, does it have a serial number somewhere, if so where is it?

Anything else that will prove ownership.

Thanks in advance.
 
Recently (about yr 2000) serial numbers have to be molded into gel coat usually on transom or near to it, before that it was left to manufacturer. You should ask for manufacturer build cert and boat purchase (VAT receipt) as a start, plus any other recent running invoices, records etc from present/recent owner.
Also names on registration docs such as SSR, radio, insurance cert..

Ken
 
SB if you are buying from a reputable broker Amble boat company or similar then ask them this question, they should be able to satisfy any doubts you may have.... one of the advantages of using a broker I suppose. But before actually making an offer I would request the owner/broker to take you out in the boat (if possible) so you are definitely sure she sails and performs as you would expect.

good luck
 
Verifying ownership is a lot less prcise a matter than one might suppose. In the case of a private purchase a lot hangs on your assessment of the attitude of the vendor. A gen guy is going to know how important it is to show a trail that verifies ownership; if the sale is on a skimpy "take it as it is" basis, perhaps better to move on.

Original sales documents, and interim sales documents carry weight, so do repair bills and marina invoices naming the vessel.

There can always be some kind of debt hanging over the boat - not necessarily one registered and verifiable. Again, the attitude of the vendor will give some clue as to the situation.

Regarding a broker sale, it's important to remember that the broker warrants nothing - you pay your 8% plus VAT and you're still on your own. I hear the howls already, but that's a fact.

I always laid weight on the calibre of the vendor - it's no different in so many other walks of life.

Good luck.

PWG
 
[ QUOTE ]
Regarding a broker sale, it's important to remember that the broker warrants nothing - you pay your 8% plus VAT and you're still on your own. I hear the howls already, but that's a fact.



[/ QUOTE ]

EH! Who pays the Brokers fee, the seller or me as the buyer?
 
The broker is the owner's agent and only has responsibilities to the vendor. The vendor pays his fee. Buyer beware.

If the vessel is Part 1 Registered on the Registry of ships, the name of the registered owner can be discovered and if there are any outstanding mortgages if they have been registered. It's like a car, the registered person may not be the owner but if you want to register your ownership you will need to get the vendor to fill in a Bill of Sale. If it is Part 1 registered, there will be a number carved or plated inside the vessel, traditionally 'carved in the main beam'!

If the vessel is registered on the Small Ships Register (SSR) scheme, there will be a number visible somewhere on the outside ofthe vessel. Again it should be possible to identify the name of the registered owner.

However, both these registrations may lapse and there is no obligation for the records to be kept up to date.

You could try searching the boat name here

http://www.itu.int/cgi-bin/htsh/mars/ship_search.sh#start

If the current owner has a DSC radio and obtained an MMSI number, a search here should produce a surname which may be the same as your vendor - or not. I'd be surprised if a thief went to the bother of creating such a record.
 
[ QUOTE ]
If the current owner has a DSC radio and obtained an MMSI number, a search here should produce a surname which may be the same as your vendor - or not. I'd be surprised if a thief went to the bother of creating such a record.

[/ QUOTE ]

Or insuring a boat, so might be worth asking to see this as well. On there own they prove nothing but together they start to build up a picture.

Pete
 
Is it a bargain? how much & type of boat might have forum members giving their opinion on that, then maybe your suspicions can be shelved, some nine years ago I negotiated on a stolen catamaran, the owner had /forums/images/graemlins/cool.gifpromised in a Sailing Today article to reward the person responsible for the recovery a £500 reward. The two blokes selling the stolen boat were arrested and were sent down at Southampton Crown Court as a result of my actions but the owner of 'BARNEY'S PATCH'' a Prout Snowgoose never came up with the reward, I will meet him one day, if anyone sees him ask for his reasoning will you, for not paying up. The thieves had a pretty good tale, and the rather large catamaran was very prominent in the boatyard down at Totnes, not hidden away up some creek, so beware, if alarm bells ring be 100% sure of ownership before you part with any cash, as stated elswhere old service bills are good, and if the boats in a marina speak to other berth holders or club members regarding ownership and history.
 
some good advice already on buying privately. I would agree alot depends on your own assessment, rather than the hard facts, but the more hard documentation you can obtain, the easier it is for you to sell, when that time comes.
If its something on a trailer, of course it is a bit easier for someone to nick, but if its a 40ft boat, theft is perhaps unlikely, if you add in a few checks yourself. Pervious bill of sale, service records, marina invoices etc...all the sort of thing that supports the guy has owned the boat for a while, and been looking after and maintaining it.
If the boat is reasonably new, then I would certainly expect the original invoice. There is alot of rubbish spoken about VAT, but the swift answer is that some buyers wont buy without the original document. This then forms a rather vicious circle. Its worth noting that abroad that document can satisfy any customs bods (though they have no VAT rights over a UK boat anyway-that is solely for the UK), and again, there is no law that makes you, a second owner, liable for a previous VAT transaction (original sale). However, the whole VAT issue is one big misunderstood mess. If its a newish boat, I would want it; if its somewhat older, I d suggest its less of an issue (to me!).
If the boat seems cheap, do get a survey, but its winter, there s an economic crisis like never before, and maybe he just wants some cash and is being sensible about obtaining a sale....
 
Mars - Ship search is supposed to be all Ships radio Stations ... DSC or not - doesn't matter. My station is on there, but I never have or had DSC.

SSR shows listed Registered Owner, but possession of document is not proof holder is owner. So SSR in combination with Identity document of vendor ...

I read posts about all sorts of pitfalls and worries - all boats I have had - have all been private deals and at much lower prices than those seen at brokers. Example : 1975 Snapdragon 23, advertised at 3000 quid. Paid 1150. Approx. 600 quid tarting up - boat perfect.

So sensible approach ... ask for VHF Ship radio licence, SSR or Part 1 reg'n ... and proof of Vendors Identity. Check docs against signs on board. Most people write call -sign somewhere near radio - does it match licence. SSR number is supposed to be on 1/4 of boat .. but often cabin topside - does it match. Part 1 number is engraved into boats structure.

there's nothing really difficult about this ....

Bill of sale - simple statement that Vendors warrants Boat free of Lien, outstanding Credit agreements and Vendor warrants to discharge all fees applicable to storage, marina berths and other that may have accrued during his and prior ownership.

Jobs a flyer !
 
Re: Boats papers, Ownership Documents.(tabernacle_man)

Not posted for a long while, so if this comes out wrong it is in reply to tabernacle_man

I'm the guy who bought Barneys Patch from the guy who had it stolen. Boat is now called Macska. He has been up front with me, so I will not disclose his name etc. But I will be visiting friends down his way in January, and I will certainly mention it to him. Name, rank and number for now.
 
Me ? was reading some old back stuff about EU and it's control of stuff ... wrong bend in bananas, strawberries wrong colour / size, english sausages meat content, ...... Hands off my Brit grub !!

I was going to include Fish and Chips in Newspaper - but though that might create a bit too much stir !
 
If the boat is newer than 1999 it with have to have its CE paperwork.
You need proof of VAT status.

I've been trying to sell my boat for a while and it turned out the VAT certificate hadn't been stamped and the sale fell through (knowledgeable buyer)

HMCE provided a certificated copy in the end. They were very helpful once I eventually got to the right person but it took months thus the buyer walking.

And as I paid the VAT myself in 2004 I had the bank statement showing the payment, without that I don't know I'd have succeeded.

So don't buy without VAT and CE proof.
 
Ruffles said:
I think most people invest in a copy of this RYA booklet when buying a second hand boat. I did.
Click to expand...

Hello Ruffles, I'm a relative newbie and considering my first purchase. I have the same concerns as Shiver Metimbers. I would like to get that RYA booklet you refer to above. The link is now dead. Can you please forward the name of the booklet. Thanks.
 
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