Boats, beaches and bears - video

well written that man

crass, disgusting, insensitive, stupid

fancy going into that wilderness and blasting away ay the local wildlife for no good reason at all

I despair of the human race

as for the comment that we are the top predator so it is okay

- oh my giddy aunt

I have a degree in ag,worked on sheep, pig and beef farms - we only have to look at our own fisherman to see how the locals care about their own environment.

Dylan
 
Hello all. In searching our movie, we came across this thread. We are Bixler & Krystin, creators of the Boat, Beaches, & Bears movie series (and blog alaskagraphy.com).

We enjoyed reading everyone's comments (even the insulting, ignorant ones!), but in an effort to defend ourselves, we would like to clear some things up.

1. We live in Alaska. Hunting is common in Alaska. We never buy meat at the store. All we eat in the terms of meat is fish and game that we harvest ourselves. The same goes with the mushrooms we pick, berries we gather, firewood we burn, etc.

2. Yes, bears are considered game in Alaska. Look it up on the AK Department of Fish and Game site. Everything we have fished, and shot, was legal.

3. Haydude - She "shoots a very young bear?" No, it wasn't young. Black bears do not get giant. It was a full grown, adult male. We ate on it, and shared it with family and friends, for over a year. As to not being a challenge, have you ever tried to stalk and shoot a bear? From your comments, we assume not. Even finding one and getting close enough to it for a fast, clean kill is difficult. How often do you fire high-powered rifles, standing up, over beach grass?

4. Alutijen - No, we don't want to mess up the world. That's why we don't buy factory farmed, **** meat at the grocery store. Is having a ship bring us up hormone and antibiotic-laced beef from California "better" for the world? Obviously you think so. We don't. Glad we ruined your day about that. Your ignorant comments made our day!

5. Dylanwinter - contrary to popular belief, black bears aren't the predator that people make them out to be. More like opportunist hunters, grass, and berry eaters.

6. Alaska obviously does a good job with issuing licenses and managing our resources. IE, we still have wildlife here. Where's your wildlife that you used to have (open ended question to make you think...)?

7. Steveeasy - Yep, we ate the whole thing. Discarded? Ever heard of a freezer? If you doubt us, check out our blog (alaskagraphy.com) and look at some of the recipes. It was delicious and lasted over a year. Too bad people like you won't ever try it!

8. Yes, we had a cockpit full of cod. Why? Because they taste great and we don't need to buy it in a store!

9. Steveeasy - again. "The couple had no need other than self gratification to kill what I believe was two bears. they went in to that environment and their impact was negative and quite frankly I am shocked by views thier actions were ok but we are all entitled to an opinion." We don't shoot animals, or catch fish needlessly. We eat them. Therefore, we had a need. No, we weren't starving in the field, but we enjoyed those 2 bears for over a year eating them all the time. Just because your "own royal family" shot things for sport doesn't mean that all hunters shoot just for the "fun."

10. Alaska is a very different place than Europe. Seems most of the negative comments are from Europe, although we do appreciate the positive comments from our European friends.

11. There's no point of arguing with either a) ignorant or b) angry people, so we won't try to change your opinions about hunting. If you don't like it, that's OK. Just don't call us wasteful, insensitive, crass, or similar.

12. To everyone that actually watched the movie, and thought about what we said, and defended us on here, thank you! You make our day.



Bixler & Krystin
alaskagraphy.com
 
I don't think Europe as a whole is the problem. The UK certainly has a problem with hunting animals. I was in Copenhagen just before Christmas and passed an event in the street - a deer (gutted) was hung by its neck on a tripod and one was being flung onto a barbecue around the corner. A queue of well dressed women and children were waiting for a piece of the cooked action.

I Whatsapp'd a photo of the hanging deer over to friends in the UK who all were appalled that this was happening in a main street (I won't post it here in case it offends Dylan).

I am not a hunter (and have no interest) but do think the UK has become a very odd place in its relationship with animal products. Everything is fine so long as it is hidden and packaged in plastic - if not, then it's deemed an affront to nature.
 
I lived in Canada and I know quite a few big game hunters, Its not something I would do, well I say that, I would have no problem if in a survival situation.. The one thing that I found is that everyone of them is passionate about the wilderness and everything in it. Now as a Brit I found that hard to understand at first,(killing & caring) but in time you learn that it is without doubt a cultural thing .. And I think that needs to be respected
 
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Dear
Bixler & Krystin, Good to hear from you. I dont think im ignorant. I apologize if my views or opinions upset you. I had hoped you might have taken some points on board. If you wanted to prove you were level headed and had valid points to justify your actions, then you would not have responded in such a Juvenal way by stating the following
(Glad we ruined your day about that. Your ignorant comments made our day.

Your views and opinions will change over time. At least something positive came from this topic.

steveeasy
 
Dear Hunters,

well done for coming onto the forum

Kill all the wildlife your moral code allows - it is your right - it is your culture - your decision - your country

you put the film on the web so sadly you will have to suck up the criticism from people you consider to be ignorant - I get a fair amount of flack as well for some of the things I have said in my films

I have yet to kill anything as precious as a bear - I celebrate wildlife and try to film it rather than blow it away

seems a shame to do that - eating it is neither here not there when it comes to moral justifications for maximising you malevolent impact on a precious ecosystem

as the sierra club used to say -

leave only footprints - take only pictures

Yours

Dylan
 
Ah, glad to hear some more follow up comments. Still boggles our minds how bears are more precious than any other living thing. Guess I just don't understand how a bear is more important than, say, a deer.

We are fine with criticism, just we don't like people accusing us of not respecting nature, and not eating what we hunt or fish. I won't change your opinion about hunting, you won't change mine about not hunting.

As another poster said (thanks!) "The one thing that I found is that everyone of them is passionate about the wilderness and everything in it." Yes, that is how we feel. I bet we care more about our environment, and nature, that most. Because we are in the field literally every day, admiring it, taking pictures, sharing it, and yes, extracting resources from it. Like everyone else used to do before factory farming and feedlots.

dylanwinter said:
Dear Hunters,

well done for coming onto the forum

Kill all the wildlife your moral code allows - it is your right - it is your culture - your decision - your country

you put the film on the web so sadly you will have to suck up the criticism from people you consider to be ignorant - I get a fair amount of flack as well for some of the things I have said in my films

I have yet to kill anything as precious as a bear - I celebrate wildlife and try to film it rather than blow it away

seems a shame to do that - eating it is neither here not there when it comes to moral justifications for maximising you malevolent impact on a precious ecosystem

as the sierra club used to say -

leave only footprints - take only pictures

Yours

Dylan
Click to expand...
 
Alaskagraphy said:
Hello all. In searching our movie, we came across this thread. We are Bixler & Krystin, creators of the Boat, Beaches, & Bears movie series (and blog alaskagraphy.com).

We enjoyed reading everyone's comments (even the insulting, ignorant ones!), but in an effort to defend ourselves, we would like to clear some things up.

1. We live in Alaska. Hunting is common in Alaska. We never buy meat at the store. All we eat in the terms of meat is fish and game that we harvest ourselves. The same goes with the mushrooms we pick, berries we gather, firewood we burn, etc.

2. Yes, bears are considered game in Alaska. Look it up on the AK Department of Fish and Game site. Everything we have fished, and shot, was legal.

3. Haydude - She "shoots a very young bear?" No, it wasn't young. Black bears do not get giant. It was a full grown, adult male. We ate on it, and shared it with family and friends, for over a year. As to not being a challenge, have you ever tried to stalk and shoot a bear? From your comments, we assume not. Even finding one and getting close enough to it for a fast, clean kill is difficult. How often do you fire high-powered rifles, standing up, over beach grass?

4. Alutijen - No, we don't want to mess up the world. That's why we don't buy factory farmed, **** meat at the grocery store. Is having a ship bring us up hormone and antibiotic-laced beef from California "better" for the world? Obviously you think so. We don't. Glad we ruined your day about that. Your ignorant comments made our day!

5. Dylanwinter - contrary to popular belief, black bears aren't the predator that people make them out to be. More like opportunist hunters, grass, and berry eaters.

6. Alaska obviously does a good job with issuing licenses and managing our resources. IE, we still have wildlife here. Where's your wildlife that you used to have (open ended question to make you think...)?

7. Steveeasy - Yep, we ate the whole thing. Discarded? Ever heard of a freezer? If you doubt us, check out our blog (alaskagraphy.com) and look at some of the recipes. It was delicious and lasted over a year. Too bad people like you won't ever try it!

8. Yes, we had a cockpit full of cod. Why? Because they taste great and we don't need to buy it in a store!

9. Steveeasy - again. "The couple had no need other than self gratification to kill what I believe was two bears. they went in to that environment and their impact was negative and quite frankly I am shocked by views thier actions were ok but we are all entitled to an opinion." We don't shoot animals, or catch fish needlessly. We eat them. Therefore, we had a need. No, we weren't starving in the field, but we enjoyed those 2 bears for over a year eating them all the time. Just because your "own royal family" shot things for sport doesn't mean that all hunters shoot just for the "fun."

10. Alaska is a very different place than Europe. Seems most of the negative comments are from Europe, although we do appreciate the positive comments from our European friends.

11. There's no point of arguing with either a) ignorant or b) angry people, so we won't try to change your opinions about hunting. If you don't like it, that's OK. Just don't call us wasteful, insensitive, crass, or similar.

12. To everyone that actually watched the movie, and thought about what we said, and defended us on here, thank you! You make our day.



Bixler & Krystin
alaskagraphy.com
Click to expand...

Hi Bixler and Krystin

I'm really glad you posted. I have to admit that like most here I was thoroughly enjoying your film up until the bear was killed but I stuck with it and began to realise just how different our cultures are and that if the hunting is controlled in the way you say that your way of life has to be better than those of us that enjoy meat, game etc and yet stick our heads in the sand when it comes to how it is produced, shipped etc such as shipping NZ lamb from the other side of the world or farming venison in what to them must be an incredibly small environment. I've also come to realise what a stunning place Alaska is that I really must visit some day . Good on you and thanks so much for three really enjoyable films.

J
 
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Top marks to Bixler and Krystin for their response to the rather biased criticism that has been posted here. As far as I can see they have lived a minimal impact life on a boat in a demanding and challenging environment. Those who live hand to mouth in the wild have a far smaller impact on wild life and the environment than those who live in the cities.

Their food travelled no commercial miles, with not food wastage, where as city dwellers food travels hundred and frequently thousands of mile to reach the super markets. It then gets wrapped in plastic, with expiry dates, and is only selected by the public if it looks like the advertised product. The advertisers give us "beautiful" food which tastes bland but keeps "fresh" for longer. Massive quantities of "ugly" or "out of date" food gets thrown away. The wastage is huge.
As far as hunting goes, virtually all countries have hunters. In some places, such as New Zealand, dear are hunted as sport. Is this damaging the local wild life? No it isn't, check the circumstances before your respond. In most places the damage to the environment comes from the overly concentrated human population, not from those scattered rural people. If you think that the countryside needs protection from the people who live there, the protection is really needed from the massive urban populations who make large demands on those resources.
In my opinion, the industrial revolution started the destruction of the planet, and medicine will finish it off. The industrialisation of the world led to huge centralised populations and medicine kept them alive, before that the world was in reasonable balance.

Take your view as to whether you think humanity will preserve the world and wildlife through its moral fortitude, or whether humanity will continue with its destructive path. I have next to no faith in humanity, and now live in the world, with the belief that we are not sustainable and at some stage we will destroy ourselves and the rest of the planet with us. If anyone seriously thinks that humanity can be trusted to find a sustainable solution with the current population levels, I would consider them seriously deluded.

Rant over.
 
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Just reading Willy de Roos' 'Northwest Passage'. He's clearly of the Dylan viewpoint. No doubt both are fine fellows, but I just find them a little bit judgemental.

ps: The view of the Sierra Club is not quite as Dylan paints it:

"Sport Hunting and Fishing -- Within both modified and natural ecosystems, the Sierra Club believes that acceptable management approaches include regulated periodic hunting and fishing when based on sufficient scientifically valid biological information and when consistent with all other management purposes and when necessary total protection of particular species or populations. Because national parks are set aside for the preservation of natural landscapes and wildlife, the Sierra Club is opposed to sport hunting in national parks and national monuments."

http://www.sierraclub.org/policy/wildlife/wildlife-and-native-plants
 
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dgadee said:
Just reading Willy de Roos' 'Northwest Passage'. He's clearly of the Dylan viewpoint. No doubt both are fine fellows, but I just find them a little bit judgemental.
Click to expand...

whereas the hunting and killem brigade are more than judgemental

they not only call me ignorant but they also take pleasure from blowing animals away. To say it is for food cuts no mustard as far as I am concerned. I have been hunting lots of times while working abroad and in the UK - primarily there as a cameraman - pheasants, wild pigs, deer, feral goats - the blokes (and it is nearly always blokes) are in a highly excited state. What really annoys me is then you see a bloke who thinks it would be great idea to squeeze one off and then just injure the creatures and can't be shagged, or do not have the skill, to chase the injured animal down.

While working on ranches in Wyoming I dreaded the opening of the hunting season. Then the prannets would come out and blast away at almost anything that they spotted moving through the trees. Bloody frightening and to see a deer with a damaged leg or with a gunshot wound was a fairly common site until they deer learned to stay clear of humans.

I would like to think that I leave most of the places I go unchanged apart from the occasional temporary mark on the mud that only shows at low tide.

I can assure you I am not squeamish about the death of animals. I have worked in livestock farming for years - I am not proud of it but I spent six weeks working in a slaughter house and have probably helped more animals to as pain/stress free a death as I can manage than most of the huntem and killem brigade.

I find it very sad that there are so many people who can only enjoy the countryside by walking around with a gun tucked under their arm.

In this case the bears are a vital part of the ecological balance -

If your culture allows you to blow away such beautiful, intelligent and vital creatures then it is time the culture was brought into the 21st century

Bear baiting, cockfighting and dog fighting was a part of our culture at one time - we grew up.
 
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Dylan
I find that I disagree with your view, however well expressed as always.
You give examples of bad practice by hunters, I’m sure there are many but maybe it’s due to the fact that our 21st century life has taken away the skills but not the desire to hunt.
Things like patience, seeing through to the kill, and respect for the animal. Unlike you, I do see a big difference between killing purely for pleasure and killing for food. Using the carcass as far as possible is part of showing respect for the animal’s sacrifice. If people had a way to learn properly about hunting then they would develop the patience and skill required rather than just getting excited and blasting away.
There are equally many examples of poor practice in slaughterhouses, as I’m sure you are aware.
I don’t think the argument that ‘we grew up’ is valid, we just changed. We never used to fly around the world dropping bombs on major population centres, we do now but I don’t see it as a sign of growth.
It seems to me that the root of your argument is the same as that which bans fox-hunting and wants to stop anchoring in Studland Bay. The problem is that these actions take us even further away from understanding our own place in the natural order.
If the populations are such that hunting can be supported, and the process is controlled by licence then I think it should be allowed – in a responsible and controlled fashion without wasting the resource (food). Surely that’s what this couple were doing.
 
Jonas said:
Dylan
I find that I disagree with your view, however well expressed as always.
You give examples of bad practice by hunters, I’m sure there are many but maybe it’s due to the fact that our 21st century life has taken away the skills but not the desire to hunt.
Things like patience, seeing through to the kill, and respect for the animal. Unlike you, I do see a big difference between killing purely for pleasure and killing for food. Using the carcass as far as possible is part of showing respect for the animal’s sacrifice. If people had a way to learn properly about hunting then they would develop the patience and skill required rather than just getting excited and blasting away.
There are equally many examples of poor practice in slaughterhouses, as I’m sure you are aware.
I don’t think the argument that ‘we grew up’ is valid, we just changed. We never used to fly around the world dropping bombs on major population centres, we do now but I don’t see it as a sign of growth.
It seems to me that the root of your argument is the same as that which bans fox-hunting and wants to stop anchoring in Studland Bay. The problem is that these actions take us even further away from understanding our own place in the natural order.
If the populations are such that hunting can be supported, and the process is controlled by licence then I think it should be allowed – in a responsible and controlled fashion without wasting the resource (food). Surely that’s what this couple were doing.
Click to expand...


Thanks for taking the time to contribute to the thread.


Bless you for saying that not liking the idea of going to a beautiful place and killing the locals (be they bears or ISIS) is the same as being against anchoring in a Solent Bay

your analysis involved several giant steps

anchoring aside

I think that to go to a lovely place and kill animals for your own pleasure is, as my mother used to say is

"not nice"

she would mumble it when she saw things she knew to be bad

In her book people who did things that were "not nice" were generally "not nice" people.

blowing sentient creatures into the next kingdom for your own pleasure...... is pretty high on my scale of not nice things to do when you go to a wild place. To sail there to admire the sunset, walk ashore, sit on a hill watching the peaceful scene and spotting a small herd of deer grazing quietly, or going for a walk in the woods and seeing through the canopy a bear grazing on autumn berries is a most wonderful pleasure (you have a canister of bear spray on your belt so there is no need for a gun for your personal protection).

The hunter is there to commit an unnecessarily evil act for their own satisfaction.


As for winging rather than killing being taken out of context. I am not talking about the gentleman's sport of shooting birds. Of course you find those you winged - you have dogs to cover every inch of ground.

What about wild boar hunting or bears or large ungulates in the mountains. Unlike in your gentleman's pheasant shoot if you make a bad shot at a feral goat, a boar, a deer, a bear and it might run for five miles - maybe more.

North American Hunters are fine upstanding people I am sure - you are suggesting that not a single one of them would fail to make a perfect kill

and then fail to make sure that the animal was followed until it was certain to be dead. My own experience does not confirm your assertions.

Please accept that animals meet a better end in a slaughter house than to be hunted in the wild. Argue about the differences in their lives if you will. But how they end their lives are two entirely different matters.

I would also like you to consider one other aspect to the activities of the hunters. I earn some of my money by filming wildlife I do not know if you have ever been to Yellowstone - the animals are not hunted and thousands of people go there every day to watch animals that are completely unbothered by the presence of humans - we are perceived as an irrelevance to their daily lives.

In areas where hunting is permitted getting that close to wildlife is really, really hard. So the evil pleasure of the few blasters is having a massive impact on the benign pleasures of people who would like to see more animals in the wild.



This is a man shooting a bear -

19 minutes in - he is not doing it to eat, he is not doing it appreciate wildlife - he is doing it for his own exclusive self gratification. After he has killed it no-one else can take any pleasure in the life of that bear. Is this a nice thing to do?






My attitude when sailing is that I would never put a line out or set a crab pot. I have had people on board, jill and my friend Jon who love to catch and eat mackerel. So I let them. Please feel free to compare the not niceness of letting people catch mackeral from my boat with killing bears


I would also like you to consider one other aspect to the activities of the hunters. I do not know if you have ever been to Yellowstone - the animals are not hunted and thousands of people go there every day to watch animals that are completely unbothered by the presence of humans - we are perceived as an irrelevance to their daily lives.

In areas where hunting is permitted getting that close to wildlife is really, really hard. So the pleasure of the few blasters is having a massive impact on the pleasures of people who would like to see more animals in the wild.

here is another snuff video 6.30 not a nice thing for a sailor to be doing

 
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dylanwinter said:
Thanks for taking the time to contribute to the thread.


Bless you for saying that not liking the idea of going to a beautiful place and killing the locals (be they bears or ISIS) is the same as being against anchoring in a Solent Bay

your analysis involved several giant steps

anchoring aside

I think that to go to a lovely place and kill animals for your own pleasure is, as my mother used to say is

"not nice"

she would mumble it when she saw things she knew to be bad

In her book people who did things that were "not nice" were generally "not nice" people.

blowing sentient creatures into the next kingdom for your own pleasure...... is pretty high on my scale of not nice things to do when you go to a wild place. To sail there to admire the sunset, walk ashore, sit on a hill watching the peaceful scene and spotting a small herd of deer grazing quietly, or going for a walk in the woods and seeing through the canopy a bear grazing on autumn berries is a most wonderful pleasure (you have a canister of bear spray on your belt so there is no need for a gun for your personal protection).

The hunter is there to commit an unnecessarily evil act for their own satisfaction.


As for winging rather than killing being taken out of context. I am not talking about the gentleman's sport of shooting birds. Of course you find those you winged - you have dogs to cover every inch of ground.

What about wild boar hunting or bears or large ungulates in the mountains. Unlike in your gentleman's pheasant shoot if you make a bad shot at a feral goat, a boar, a deer, a bear and it might run for five miles - maybe more.

North American Hunters are fine upstanding people I am sure - you are suggesting that not a single one of them would fail to make a perfect kill

and then fail to make sure that the animal was followed until it was certain to be dead. My own experience does not confirm your assertions.

Please accept that animals meet a better end in a slaughter house than to be hunted in the wild. Argue about the differences in their lives if you will. But how they end their lives are two entirely different matters.

I would also like you to consider one other aspect to the activities of the hunters. I earn some of my money by filming wildlife I do not know if you have ever been to Yellowstone - the animals are not hunted and thousands of people go there every day to watch animals that are completely unbothered by the presence of humans - we are perceived as an irrelevance to their daily lives.

In areas where hunting is permitted getting that close to wildlife is really, really hard. So the evil pleasure of the few blasters is having a massive impact on the benign pleasures of people who would like to see more animals in the wild.



This is a man shooting a bear -

19 minutes in - he is not doing it to eat, he is not doing it appreciate wildlife - he is doing it for his own exclusive self gratification. After he has killed it no-one else can take any pleasure in the life of that bear. Is this a nice thing to do?






My attitude when sailing is that I would never put a line out or set a crab pot. I have had people on board, jill and my friend Jon who love to catch and eat mackerel. So I let them. Please feel free to compare the not niceness of letting people catch mackeral from my boat with killing bears


I would also like you to consider one other aspect to the activities of the hunters. I do not know if you have ever been to Yellowstone - the animals are not hunted and thousands of people go there every day to watch animals that are completely unbothered by the presence of humans - we are perceived as an irrelevance to their daily lives.

In areas where hunting is permitted getting that close to wildlife is really, really hard. So the pleasure of the few blasters is having a massive impact on the pleasures of people who would like to see more animals in the wild.

here is another snuff video 6.30 not a nice thing for a sailor to be doing

Click to expand...

Your assumptions that our style of hunting, black bears for food, is the same as "trophy" hunting, namely a brown bear for its fur to put on a wall. It isn't the same thing, remotely, whatsoever. Also, to date, we have never even had to follow an animal more than a couple feet, literally, after shooting. Why? Because we practice shooting, don't shoot unless we are sure we can do it cleanly, and get close. Many people do, unfortunately, shoot without practicing or shoot at ridiculous yardages, and miss or wound their animals. Don't accuse us of that.

Alaska's resources are very well managed. Come up here and see for yourself. We also take pictures, and video, of bears without shooting them. It's not like we go around killing every living thing.

I would also like you to consider one other aspect to the activities of the hunters. I do not know if you have ever been to Yellowstone - the animals are not hunted and thousands of people go there every day to watch animals that are completely unbothered by the presence of humans - we are perceived as an irrelevance to their daily lives.
Click to expand...
They are unbothered by the presence of humans because they are used to humans being around them, not because they aren't hunted. Just like the bears on the Denali Highway. All of my shots on bears and other game have been within 100 yards, with the animal knowing I am there. No tree stands, baiting, blinds, etc. They sure didn't seem to mind me.
 
What is your point? Vegetarianism? Wildlife is different from farmed animals? Buddhism? Born again meat processor?

You are clearly more extreme than the Sierra Club, but I can't really see what drives such views.
 
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