Boating on a budget - Scottish boat show talk

[dylanwinter]

On some more serious points:

- Bowsprit and Mizzen increase sail area without increasing berthing fees
- Look for equivalents without "Marine" written all over it. Its usually cheaper
- Rope does not need to be dyneema ultra light super strong blah blah - it needs to do a job
- Blocks don't need to be branded if they do the job
- Gear doesn't need to be Musto. Decathlon gear generally scores quite highly in reviews but is far cheaper than competitors
- Make sure everything has two purposes.
- Shop around for Gas Cylinders. I've paid double in some places what I've paid elsewhere.
- Refillable Gas may be an option but if you have no experience may not be something to be talking too much about.

these are good points

although I try to avoid buying stuff for the boat before it needs replacing

Ropes and blocks are pretty close to being immortal - which is a real blessing

I think meths is the most cost effective fuel for cooking

D

 

[oldgit]

" and your children's children"
Getting your grandchildren to go out with you and enjoying their excitement is probably the single best reason to justify your spending all that money for all those years.

 

[Andrew41]

Lobby the councils, MPs, Crown Estate, and the multitude of sailing/tourism quangos (The Scottish Marine Tourism Development Group includes industry groups, BMF Scotland, RYA Scotland and Sail Scotland as well as Highlands & Islands Enterprise, VisitScotland, The Crown Estate, Scottish Tourism Alliance, Scottish Enterprise, Scottish Development International, Scottish Canals and Firth of Clyde Forum) to get rid of these ripoff mooring fees for all the visitor moorings that clog up all the anchoring spots and discourage spending money ashore by taking funds from the cruising kitty.
These moorings make large profits and the costs are going up not down. Many of them virtually exclude anchoring within safe reach of shore facilities (Tobermory, Tarbert, Gigha). Yes, if you can get one, they are often most welcome but how come some can be free of charge to actively encourage visits and revisits ashore (Brodick, Lochranza, Millport) when other are now charging £16 (Tobermory) a night?
Popular places like Arinagour Coll and Craighouse moorings must have enough £10/night boats in a season to build a small marina (heaven forbid). Sail West project aka Malin Waters has millions of euros of funding (to promote sailing?) and report "Visitors to Scotland who take part in sailing or yachting as part of their trip contribute £21 million each year to the Scottish economy."
There are millions of pounds being invested in some pretty niche harbours and projects (http://www.visitscotland.org/media_centre/£22m_boost_sailing_scotland.aspx) when the basic West coast sailing paradise was always there and doesn't need much promotion or branding.
There is always funding for tourism in Scotland so why can moorings not be free (or a small voluntary donation requested to cover costs as generally the taxpayer paid for these facilities in the first place) just like prescription charges and bridge tolls?
The Crown Estate report 5,800 moorings in Scotland, say at an average annual fee of £60 that's £348k a year income, plenty left over after the Christmas party to service visitor moorings.
We've always accepted that the cruising yachtsman comes in last place after commercial shipping, fishermen and local boats but as the fishing industry has declined and many bays are filled with fishfarms perhaps it's time for us to catch a break and have visitor mooring and public marina/pontoon visitor fees cut.
When the CalMac ferry subsidy is £100m p.a., a new ferry costs £42m and the new Brodick pier will be £22m (and rising I expect) I don't think it's a lot to ask to put the yachtsman's donations and say £100k funding to service the visitor moorings if it is a £21m revenue sport.
Many yachts using expensive visitor marina berths and pontoons are skippered charter yachts and they can recoup their fees as expenses against tax and build them into the holiday/course cost (and their diesel is half price).
Yes, visitor mooring fees is my pet bugbear. I like to sleep at anchor, when there is room, but I also like to go ashore in the evening to spend a limited amount of hard-earned cash without having to give a third of it away for the privilege of having a buoy clunking against my topsides half the night!

 

[AngusMcDoon]

Yes, if you can get one, they are often most welcome but how come some can be free of charge to actively encourage visits and revisits ashore (Brodick, Lochranza, Millport) when other are now charging £16 (Tobermory) a night?

Lochranza definitely not free.

Millport says that they want a contribution and suggest a price, but 3 weeks ago the payment box was missing from the door of the moorings association shed. You could see it through the window of the shed.

Dunno about Brodick.


There are virtually no free moorings left in Scotland now. The Kyleakin ones have gone. 4 left at Churchton Bay, but they were not maintained this year.

 

[Andrew41]

Och no, not the Kyleakin ones - they were handy.
Kyleakin 'marina' - locals + fishermen = full.

 

[AngusMcDoon]

Och no, not the Kyleakin ones - they were handy.
Kyleakin 'marina' - locals + fishermen = full.

I was talking to the Kyle HM this year and he regrets that they've gone too, because they were useful in a strong southerly blow when the Kyle pontoons are untenable - but he said the decision to remove them was not his.

 

[AngusMcDoon]

Boating on a budget

at first I was a bit surprised as it seems to me that my budget is stupidly out of kilter and I spend far more on this particular pecadillo than I ever should

I have ocme up with a few subject headings and I am open to more ideas - sensible, insane or witty


Don't eat ashore

Drive a small crap car

Drink less -

buy the shortest boat you can live with

make sure it is a twin keeler so that you can use cheap drying moorings or cheapish drying marinas

don't spend money on anti-foul - just run her up the beach and scrape her every now and again

when you come to buy a boat - don't take your significant other with you - this will cost you money and you will end up buying a bigger boat that you need. There is no need to buy a boat that is big enough to accomodate your children and your children's children

old sails are nerly as good as new ones

learn to sail solo

when hitching around carry a life jacket over your shoulder - easier to get lifts that way

the best way of making your saiiling days cheaper is to sail more often - so many of the costs associated with sailing are fixed costs so the more you sail those fixed costs are spread over more days

any more?

I sail in Scottish waters all summer - usually away for 3 to 4 months. For this length of time food can become expensive if relying on small Spars and Co-ops as frequently found in The Highlands and islands. Having a fridge and being able to keep it going continually saves money on food. By putting only the essentials in it I can get about 2 weeks food in. Cram it full with meat and dairy. Salad stuff survives unrefrigerated. Buying fresh food to last 2 weeks requires a bit of planning and grubbing around at the back of the shelves in supermarkets to get the longest date items. I usually end up near the end of the 2 weeks eating gammon steaks or joints, haggis and things like salami as these always have the longest shelf life.

There are few places on the west coast which have access to major supermarkets - i.e. Tesco/Morrisons. Sainsbury's and Asda don't seem to make an appearance and the bigger Co-ops (like at Kyle) are no cheaper than the smaller ones. Tescos are at Stranraer, Campbeltown, Oban, Ullapool, Fort William and Stornoway.

 

[alan_d]

There are few places on the west coast which have access to major supermarkets - i.e. Tesco/Morrisons. Sainsbury's and Asda don't seem to make an appearance and the bigger Co-ops (like at Kyle) are no cheaper than the smaller ones. Tescos are at Stranraer, Campbeltown, Oban, Ullapool, Fort William and Stornoway.

Fort William also has Morrisons and Lidl, Oban has Aldi. and Lidl is due to open there in September.

 

[Gerry]

Always chat to the local commercial fisherman, ask what antifoul they use etc- has saved us a pretty penny over the years with good steers on products and local sources.
Do all your own repairs, canvas work etc.
I buy special offers on meat etc and then can(bottle) it. We have been able to cruise in some very expensive places by living off stores untiil we return to cheaper waters. Maybe of no use in Scotland but it enabled us to spend a very nice month in Bermuda!
Look for non-marine equivalents in things like fuel/oil filters etc.
Shop on ebay-and ybw for sale forum. We found a new dinghy for £500- new price in USA $3000 - on ebay, chain and rope at 1/2 price on ybw and many more deals.
Swop charts with other yachties who are leaving the area. In almost 20 years of cruising we have only needed to buy a handful of new charts.
Like others I recommend Anne Hills' book and also the 'cost-concious cruiser' by Lyn and Larry Pardey https://books.google.co.uk/books/about/Cost_Conscious_Cruiser.html?id=Aiy97sjxZWcC

 

[dylanwinter]

Incidentally,

I got an emila reminding me about the £200 millionnire

http://www.bluemoment.com/200pm.html

very impressive -in a weird way

but written in 1932

when £200 was worth £9,760 in todays slotties

less than I spend on sailing - including the petrol but but not wear and tear on the car

D

 

[yachtorion]

Fix it yerself.

Generally definitely, but not always a way to save money.

Also don't start with a "project" because it will cost more overall.

 

[dylanwinter]

Generally definitely, but not always a way to save money.

Also don't start with a "project" because it will cost more overall.

I think you are right

best is to buy a smaller older boat that does not really need fixing

don't go fixing stuff that does not need it

upgrading stuff is a waste of money - why replace a radio that works fine with a newer one with all the bells and whistles - a mayday is a mayday is a mayday

buy the boat you can afford now and is more or less ready to sail now

forget about cosmetics

the view from the cockpit is the same whatever the state of the topsides

there is a paralell with cars

buy a reliable old fiesta/Polo for £1000 rather than spend £1000 on a lovely old Jag/Merc that will be a money pit

D

 

[steve yates]

U

Incidentally,

I got an emila reminding me about the £200 millionnire

http://www.bluemoment.com/200pm.html

very impressive -in a weird way

but written in 1932

when £200 was worth £9,760 in todays slotties

less than I spend on sailing - including the petrol but but not wear and tear on the car

D

Ah but it wasn't just that that was his hobby, it was his entire living costs was it not?

 

[steve yates]

I think you are right

best is to buy a smaller older boat that does not really need fixing

don't go fixing stuff that does not need it

upgrading stuff is a waste of money - why replace a radio that works fine with a newer one with all the bells and whistles - a mayday is a mayday is a mayday

buy the boat you can afford now and is more or less ready to sail now

forget about cosmetics

the view from the cockpit is the same whatever the state of the topsides

there is a paralell with cars

buy a reliable old fiesta/Polo for £1000 rather than spend £1000 on a lovely old Jag/Merc that will be a money pit

D

You said something like this very early on to me in a thread when I was looking for a boat.

Best advice I ever had, thank you.

 

[AngusMcDoon]

U

Ah but it wasn't just that that was his hobby, it was his entire living costs was it not?

Yes. Also it's entirely fiction. A great story nonetheless, and a wonderful illustration of a simpler age.

 

[awol]

I would have thought the first advice for prospective buyers would be to stay away from marinas like Kip and Largs and avoid brokers' fees by buying privately. May not go down too well with your paymasters, though.

 

[dylanwinter]

I would have thought the first advice for prospective buyers would be to stay away from marinas like Kip and Largs and avoid brokers' fees by buying privately. May not go down too well with your paymasters, though.

I shall say it

but with a proviso

get out of them in the summer

actually it is a much more palatable message

most marinas have a surfeit of 40 footers

they also have quite a few small spaces for 26 footers - especially ones that do not draw six feet and can take the ground

Many of the marinas have spaces in the winter - those pontoons are a cost - anything they can put in there is a help

so if you have a small, shallow draft boat you can get some brilliant deals

the marinas actually want blokes like me in the winter time

inn the summer they want me out of there

how does that sound as an argument?

have I convinced you?

the blokes I need to convince are these chaps

http://www.kipmarina.co.uk/meet-the-team/

but Mylor - which is the best marina I have ever come across

https://www.mylor.com/

offered me a handsome discount in return for me talking about winter sailing on the Fal and for running pictures of their marina looking lovely

http://www.keepturningleft.co.uk/blogs/mylor-boat-porn-1/

http://www.keepturningleft.co.uk/blogs/sparkling-thursday-morning/

http://www.keepturningleft.co.uk/wp-content/uploads/IMG_1008-tris.jpg

 

[awol]

the blokes I need to convince are these chaps

http://www.kipmarina.co.uk/meet-the-team/

Just a wee tad out of date - the following eulogy was issued by Kip back in June.

After a long and illustrious career spanning four decades, Kip's General Manager has decided to accept a new challenge North of the River to re-develop the Silvers yard and repair facility.

Duncan will be leaving at the end of June and we thank him for his years of good service - which ones they were we are unsure but possibly 1989, 1997 & 2006!

On a serious note all at Kip Marina and the Holt Leisure Group wish him all the best in his new venture

 

[dylanwinter]

Just a wee tad out of date - the following eulogy was issued by Kip back in June.

maybe they need some more content for their website

I am a bit of a content machine

they certainly need some-one to go through and have a bit of a spring clean

D

 

[Yellow Ballad]

Cheap car +1

Peugeot 106 1.5d I've had two, I got rid of the first one thinking I have enough spare cash to have something nicer, then I got rid of it and realised my fuel bill had doubled (20k a year commute) and I had no spare cash. The one I have now does 75mpg on average and has given me a new lease of life. I have paid off my debts (sold a lot of material things) and can actually save (towards my first yacht/house if the wife gets her way).

It cost me an initial £250 and has given me a year of driving (plus t&t and insurance), another year or two with some basic maintenance costs. As with Dylan, I only repair something once it needs it (It was treated to a basic service by myself a few months ago). I drive at 60 on the motorway and people look at the car and expect it, I also don't worry about leaving it anywhere or if it gets dinked in the carpark, nore do I worry what other people think. They pay £300-500 a month to drive about in a new car, I put that into my savings.

I like to live my life by "not keeping up with the Joneses".