Boating back on - this wednesday!

Getting back on thread, it was interesting to hear in Grant Shapps announcement today that "there has been an "army" of infrastructure workers across the country. There have been "accelerated" maintenance road and rail projects during lockdown. Highways England has completed £200m worth of upgrades and Network Rail has done £550m of work in April alone".

So I wonder why it is that the EA haven't been able to clear a tree, sunken boat, transit van and check all their "assets" in the same period of time? Could it be that we're getting a third-rate service from an incompetent government agency?
 
I too was wondering why they hadn’t been out working for when things reopened.
They have certainly spent much time writing asking for payment of licence fees.
 
I'll be sending the EA a complaint as suggested here - Complaints procedure - not that I expect a response but how exactly does one go about calling for a vote of no confidence in the EA in its role as navigation authority??
 
DogsBody said:
I'll be sending the EA a complaint as suggested here - Complaints procedure - not that I expect a response but how exactly does one go about calling for a vote of no confidence in the EA in its role as navigation authority??
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Complaining even to the EA's CEO will make you feel better and will have zero impact. The complaint will drop down the tree to a local team leader to draft a response that will be sense checked by the waterways manager's secretary, topped & tailed then returned to the CEO to post out after about a month. It's the way of things at the EA. Nothing will change because it can't and there's no appetite for change.

If you must complain, send it to Julia Simpson, Regional Director, EA, Red Kite House, Wallingford. She knows that the management of the river is not what it could be but is stuck with the people she has appointed. One day she may take action but it is easier to maintain the status quo. I'd like to feel sorry for her but she does earn the big money so I won't.

I wish the new waterways manager all the luck in the world, it's a hospital pass of a poisoned chalice of a job as he will be unable to please anyone be they staff or river users (but I would still have liked to have a crack at it).
 
TrueBlue said:
Why not try the TMBA - Thames Motor Boat Association - better still join for a small sum £5
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Already a paid up member but they don't have the clout to be noticed.

thames cruiser said:
An influential and reliable lobbying group would be a good place to start. Do you know of any?
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Nope. ATYC have been strangely silent recently but then they've never truly recovered from the bad publicity they brought upon themselves during the Queen's Jubilee celebrations. TBMA , see above, I'm sure they try in some areas but are too small for the EA to really care about. Anyone else?
 
Old Crusty said:
If you must complain, send it to Julia Simpson, Regional Director, EA, Red Kite House, Wallingford. She knows that the management of the river is not what it could be but is stuck with the people she has appointed. One day she may take action but it is easier to maintain the status quo. I'd like to feel sorry for her but she does earn the big money so I won't.
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Sounds like a plan, fully expect my letter to be promptly filed in the nearest WPB but I'm British, so complaining is part of life, weather is behaving at present, so need something else to complain about!
 
OK, moaning aside, there are many people on here better versed in legalities than I, so a serious question:

Given that HM government has now said that we can spend as much time outside as we like, so long as we obey social distancing rules and return home each night

and has said we can travel as far as we wish within England to visit open spaces

and has stated that motor boating is allowed, again so long as we obey social distancing rules

and that the River Thames has a statutory Public Right of Navigation (the EA can't legally stop me from transiting a lock for instance, even if I refuse to pay for a boat registration).

Can the EA legally close the river indefinitely effectively overruling the government?

My limited knowledge suggests they can't, although they can close parts of it for maintenance work (or the like) and can advise against navigating i. e. when red boarded but I'd be interested in the opinions of those better informed than me.
 
The river was never closed.

They can no more close the river than they can close all the roads.

What they did was, to reiterate the governments line on essential travel only by doing everything in their power to make boating difficult.
I.e. stand down the lock keepers, turn off the power at locks, not clearing the navigation etc.

if you wish to hand wind the locks and swerve around the various obstructions you can.
 
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There exists an ancient, public right of navigation 'across all parts of the river' enshrined in one of the early versions of Magna Carta. As navigation authority, a role inherited from the Thames Conservancy via Thames Water and the National Rivers Authority before it, the EA's duty is to defend the PRN and ensure that users comply with the various laws and regulations that have built up over 800 years. The EA cannot prevent anyone from navigating on the Thames even if they choose to ignore the regs but can prosecute infringements if deemed to be in the public interest. Temporary closures to sections of the river are permissible.

We celebrated the 800th anniversary of Magna Carta in 2015 when the Queen, accompanied by then POTUS Obama, visited Runnymede to unveil the bronze chairs as a memorial. Ironically, the EA closed the river to all traffic temporarily as a part of the security cordon around the site. I was the downstream closure patrol boat using my powers under S.52 of the Harbours Docks and Piers Clauses Act 1847:

52 Powers of harbour, dock, or pier master.
The harbour master may give directions for all or any of the following purposes; (that is to say,)
  • For regulating the time at which and the manner in which any vessel shall enter into, go out of, or lie in or at the harbour, dock, or pier, and within the prescribed limits, if any, and its position, mooring or unmooring, placing and removing, whilst therein:
  • For regulating the position in which any vessel shall take in or discharge its cargo or any part thereof, or shall take in or land its passengers, or shall take in or deliver ballast within or on the harbour, dock, or pier:
  • For regulating the manner in which any vessel entering the harbour or dock or coming to the pier shall be dismantled, as well for the safety of such vessel as for preventing injury to other vessels, and to the harbour, dock, or pier, and the moorings thereof:
  • For removing unserviceable vessels and other obstructions from the harbour, dock, or pier, and keeping the same clear:
  • For regulating the quantity of ballast or dead weight in the hold which each vessel in or at the harbour, dock, or pier shall have during the delivery of her cargo, or after having discharged the same:
Provided always, that nothing in this or the special Act contained shall authorize the harbour master to do or cause to be done any act in any way repugnant to or inconsistent with any law relating to the Customs, or any regulation of the Commissioners of her Majesty’s [F1Customs and Excise].
 
Thanks Old Crusty, that kind of backs up my thinking.

Mark26 said:
The river was never closed.

They can no more close the river than they can close all the roads.

What they did was, to reiterate the governments line on essential travel only by doing everything in their power to make boating difficult.
I.e. stand down the lock keepers, turn off the power at locks, not clearing the navigation etc.

if you wish to hand wind the locks and swerve around the various obstructions you can.
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@Mark26 difference in terminology perhaps but the latest received from the EA states "So at this stage, we want to reiterate that boaters should avoid all non-essential travel on our waterways for the next few weeks and to make journeys only to access essential services and facilities". Avoid all non essential travel on the river, which directly contradicts the latest advice from the government, which is that we can travel anywhere within England for leisure activities (hardly essential travel), provided we stick to social distancing rules, which is easy to do on a boat and return home each evening.
 
DogsBody said:
Already a paid up member but they don't have the clout to be noticed.


Nope. ATYC have been strangely silent recently but then they've never truly recovered from the bad publicity they brought upon themselves during the Queen's Jubilee celebrations. TBMA , see above, I'm sure they try in some areas but are too small for the EA to really care about. Anyone else?
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That’s a bit unfair, Boatone puts a lot of effort in on our behalf.
I’m more than happy in the knowledge that Tony is our voice of reason, but don’t expect him to report everything in a public forum on a regular basis.

I’m sure that the river users groups coming together can only be a good thing.
 
prof pat pending said:
That’s a bit unfair, Boatone puts a lot of effort in on our behalf.
I’m more than happy in the knowledge that Tony is our voice of reason, but don’t expect him to report everything in a public forum on a regular basis.

I’m sure that the river users groups coming together can only be a good thing.
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I stand by what I said. As a member of a Thames club that is itself a member of the ATYC, I've seen very little information circulated from the ATYC for many months that is of any use. Basically just their monthly flyer, which contained news that was usually "old news" by the time the flyer got produced and circulated. I'm aware there has recently been a change of leadership within the ATYC but am not sure if that was even officially circulated. From what I can make of it, they've (ATYC) been struggling in recent times to get sufficient attendance to make their events worthwhile, which if correct, suggests I'm not alone in thinking they've been going downhill.

TMBA. I stated that I'm personally a paid up member, have been since the start. I am aware that Tony puts in a lot of effort there but I still believe TMBA is too small (i.e. not enough paid up members) for the EA to take any serious notice of - a situation that might now change, now five of the Thames based boating organisations (TMBA & ATYC included) have joined forces to present a united front to the EA.

I never asked either TMBA or ATYC to report on a public forum but since you've mentioned it, doing so occasionally with a brief synopsis of what they've been up to recently might help to persuade new members to sign up - TMBA (Tony) does on here but as far as I'm aware ATYC doesn't.
 
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