Boat value relative to personal worth.

[ryanroberts]

But for whatever reason the younger types seem attracted to mobos not yachts and friends of mine in the business tell me the £600k-£1.2m mobo new bracket has tons of interest with a significant chunk coming from buyers far from middle age. As a consequence, apparently great value exists in fairly new mobos as the new buyers seem to only want new.

Quite possibly, I'm mid-middle aged and none of my younger friends have an interest in things that don't go vrooom. Also I assume that total share of wealth for millennials is rather lower than in the 80s when a lot of sail boats seemed to be aimed at the lower middle class? Unless you are 3-4x median income couple you are going to have problems affording a house that's not in the hood, never mind a sail boat in an accessible location.

 

[newtothis]

I've seen a couple of fairly expensive boats in marinas recently with names like "Thanks Mum!" and "Thanks Nan!"

I once saw a very expensive looking Mercedes with the number plate: WAS HIS. Could be another way of coming to boat ownership.

 

[dom]

Quite possibly, I'm mid-middle aged and none of my younger friends have an interest in things that don't go vrooom. Also I assume that total share of wealth for millennials is rather lower than in the 80s when a lot of sail boats seemed to be aimed at the lower middle class? Unless you are 3-4x median income couple you are going to have problems affording a house that's not in the hood, never mind a sail boat in an accessible location.

Indeed, overpriced housing is a big social problem

 

[[163233]]

Boat value depreciates, so this would imply my "worth" is falling because I sail. As wear exacerbates depreciation, then the more I sail, the less I am worth.

 

[[3889]]

Boat value depreciates, so this would imply my "worth" is falling because I sail. As wear exacerbates depreciation, then the more I sail, the less I am worth.

It's called entropy. Take comfort from the concept of the heat death of the universe and meanwhile milk it for all you can.

 

[Seven Spades]

5% may work for MABs but not new boats. I know lots of people who sold up their houses to buy a boat to go cruising. Thier boat will represent a major part of their wealth. Then there are the buyers of new boats, again I doubt the figures again.

 

[LittleSister]

As I don't own a house, and have only a very modest pension pot, my MAB represents a very high proportion of my personal wealth.

I can see I'm an outlier on this one. :ambivalence:

 

[rotrax]

One of our boats represents 25%, the other one months retirement income.

Although I expect that the Kiwi boat might have more than doubled in value now the renovation is almost finished.

It might be worth $20,000 Dollars NZ on a good day. About £10,000.

And its a MSB - Manky Steel Boat!

The other was a concious decision to buy an expensive comfortable boat, knowing for sure that depreciation would eat capital value over time, but still leave a reasonable amount of capital when we cant sail any more.

 

[Kukri]

As I don't own a house, and have only a very modest pension pot, my MAB represents a very high proportion of my personal wealth.

I can see I'm an outlier on this one. :ambivalence:

Not that much of one.

 

[Genoa]

Hmmm, we have either a very cheap house or a very expensive boat, because we're more like 20%. Eek.

You are not alone.
Thing is the annual costs are length dependant generally even engineering work is based on HP generally, so an old (cheaper) boat of same size Has same basic running cost and actually cost more over 5 years.
The point being, for the average 40 ft sailing boat, in6 years the running cost is what matters and is probably equal to the “value” but is sunk. Work out your total cost of ownership which is a more useful number I think.

 

[Genoa]

2% of my net worth, but 25% of my annual income to run!

That doesn’t surprise me.

 

[Blue Sunray]

In terms of sailing I was thinking of dinghies; bigger sailing boats have certainly fallen out of fashion for younger buyers. My point is that I don't think young are more cash strapped than they used to be, quite the opposite for those with good jobs.

But for whatever reason the younger types seem attracted to mobos not yachts and friends of mine in the business tell me the £600k-£1.2m mobo new bracket has tons of interest with a significant chunk coming from buyers far from middle age. As a consequence, apparently great value exists in fairly new mobos as the new buyers seem to only want new.

I suspect that some of the drivers for the moves to MoBo for the "£350-600k ... mid/late-twenties finance worker and over the years both capital and salaries mount up." are:

• a lot of these types are time poor (or at least perceive themselves to be) MoBos are seen as more convenient timewise on a number of levels;
• sailing is seen as an 'old white man's' hobby, (just look at the attitudes displayed by many who post on here and the PBO forum (let alone in the lounge), that are noticeably absent on the MoBo forum) many of these types are none or only a subset of the three and do not wish to be so associated;
• participation in amateur competitive sport is falling across the board (qv the recent RYA lectures on the future of clubs), this obviously has an impact on numbers who might get into racing sailing.

 

[grumpygit]

I
We never gave the percentage a thought so this was never an issue when we were looking for a liveaboard. I bought what I thought we could afford but most importantly what we could afford to repair, maintain and for the event of renewables

 

[LittleSister]

Work out your total cost of ownership

What a terrifying idea!

 

[ryanroberts]

sailing is seen as an 'old white man's' hobby, (just look at the attitudes displayed by many who post on here and the PBO forum (let alone in the lounge), that are noticeably absent on the MoBo forum) many of these types are none or only a subset of the three and do not wish to be so associated;

If high end finance / managerial class ideology now excludes sailing as Potentially Reactionary this can only improve the hobby. From my memories of city contracting Patrick Bateman is still Patrick Bateman even when beige and an avid promoter of fashionable ideas. Maybe there will also be a glut of cheap converted watermills in Tuscany and other abandoned status symbols of a previous age.

 

[Blue Sunray]

If high end finance / managerial class ideology now excludes sailing as Potentially Reactionary this can only improve the hobby. From my memories of city contracting Patrick Bateman is still Patrick Bateman even when beige and an avid promoter of fashionable ideas. Maybe there will also be a glut of cheap converted watermills in Tuscany and other abandoned status symbols of a previous age.

"just look at the attitudes displayed by many who post on here and the PBO forum"

I rest my case. Again the old duffers looking for reasons to exclude rather than include.

 

[Kukri]

Genoa

Work out your total cost of ownership

What a terrifying idea!

If I had ever taken that advice I would never have started, and I would have missed some of the happiest moments of my life.

 

[dom]

I suspect that some of the drivers for the moves to MoBo for the "£350-600k ... mid/late-twenties finance worker and over the years both capital and salaries mount up." are:

• a lot of these types are time poor (or at least perceive themselves to be) MoBos are seen as more convenient timewise on a number of levels;
• sailing is seen as an 'old white man's' hobby, (just look at the attitudes displayed by many who post on here and the PBO forum (let alone in the lounge), that are noticeably absent on the MoBo forum) many of these types are none or only a subset of the three and do not wish to be so associated;
• participation in amateur competitive sport is falling across the board (qv the recent RYA lectures on the future of clubs), this obviously has an impact on numbers who might get into racing sailing.

1 & 2 are probably right, although from personal experience I can say that running a boat that say perhaps 10/12 crew can be a nightmare and the problem seems to be getting worse. There's probably some underlying social explanation I'm not aware of, but it doesn't seem so apparent in France.

Re the falling participation rates in competitive sport, I looked at the Govt data and it would seem that a fairly steady 32-33% of over 26 year olds compete at least once a week and about 55% of 16-25 year olds nationally (P7). In London and the SE the percentage rises to c.70%!

One wonders how many unused gym memberships and New Year's resolutions are in there

file:///C:/Users/mark.page/Downloads/CBP-8181.pdf

 

[Blue Sunray]

1 & 2 are probably right, although from personal experience I can say that running a boat that say perhaps 10/12 crew can be a nightmare and the problem seems to be getting worse. There's probably some underlying social explanation I'm not aware of, but it doesn't seem so apparent in France.

Re the falling participation rates in competitive sport, I looked at the Govt data and it would seem that a fairly steady 32-33% of over 26 year olds compete at least once a week and about 55% of 16-25 year olds nationally (P7). In London and the SE the percentage rises to c.70%!

One wonders how many unused gym memberships and New Year's resolutions are in there

file:///C:/Users/mark.page/Downloads/CBP-8181.pdf

My main source was, IIRC, this talk (I do hope I picked the correct one from memory), posted on here some time ago:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hNV7KgXyU50

To me it seems that the French are far more into sailing for the sailing, not as a medium to display their chippyness in the way too many Brits seem to be (see ample evidence across these pages).

 

[RichardS]

a medium to display their chippyness in the way too many Brits seem to be (see ample evidence across these pages).

That Elecglitch guy was a prime example of that .... but he seems to have done a runner.

Richard