Boat Sunk - Engine help please!

brokethebox

brokethebox

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Hi all,

so last week, whilst I was away working at sea, our Morecambe Bay Prawner partially sunk on her berth. She was rescued due to the fast action of members of our club, and then my wife spending the night emptying her before the next high water.

I'm about to head down to try and ensure the engine survives the experience of her wee swim, but wondered if you guys had any advice?

My plan is to:
clean her with fresh water,
replace the oil,
get the injectors off and fill them with diesel,
turn the engine by hand,
replace the injectors
start her up, warm her up a wee bit,
replace the oil again, and the filter.

Does that sound about right?

I know the electric gubbins (starter, alternator, wiring loom) will be knackered, but that can wait for another day (and i can bring them home if they're even remotely servicable)

Many thanks in advance folks,

James
 
I am not sure that you need to do anything with the injectors as these are sealed by the injection pintle but you should remove them so you can ensure all the water is removed from the cylinders and combustion chamber.

The Starter motor and alternator may be salvageable so long as you get them off and into buckets of fresh water then dry out by putting in a warm oven. Then take them to an Autoelectrics company to have bearings changed and checked over.

Just be careful when you turn the engine by hand that you are not circulating any water which may be in the sump pick up
pipe so give reasonable time for engine to drain.

Dribble a small amount of oil into the bores but be aware too much could cause a hydraulic lock.

Check your fuel tank for ingress of water.

Best of luck and sorry to hear of your problems.

What engine is it by the way.
 
Thanks JCorstorphine,

I had meant remove injectors to fill the cylinders with diesel.

I'll try the trick with starter/alternator, cant make it any worse, right!?

I'll check tank though it's much higher in boat and therefore wasn't flooded, thankfully.

How much is a "small amount"?

She's a Volvo MD11c

J
 
Starter and alternator may function or not.
IMHO, the key is to get the engine turning over free of water ASAP and preferably running.
If the diesel filter is clear of water, the injectors should be OK.
Check the fuel tank is free of water.
Drain sump, remove water.
Add clean (cheap?) oil, turn over decompressed.
Get it running.
stop it, check sump for water.
Run it up to warm.
Drain oil, change filter.
If the oil is clean and clear of water, you could re-use it, or most of it?
But oil is cheap.

Lots of engines have survived worse than this.
Time between getting it out of water and getting it running matters, it is corrosion time.

Good Luck.
 
brokethebox said:
yes daydream, found that out, and least said, soonest mended!
Click to expand...

Very sorry to hear about your sinking but your observation has piqued my interest more than ever.

Is there any chance that you could divulge just a little more ...... in the interests of ensuring that none of us make the same mistake, of course! :)

I succeeded in sinking my outboard last year but when I drained off the oil there was just a teaspoonful of water lying in the bottom of the jar so I poured the good stuff back in.

Richard
 
brokethebox said:
Thanks JCorstorphine,

I had meant remove injectors to fill the cylinders with diesel.

I'll try the trick with starter/alternator, cant make it any worse, right!?

I'll check tank though it's much higher in boat and therefore wasn't flooded, thankfully.

How much is a "small amount"?

She's a Volvo MD11c

J
Click to expand...

I had a similar problem on my Volvo MD2B which is the predecessor of the MDIIc when the sea water pump was incorrectly assembled by the boats previous owner resulting in the sump being filled to the brim with seawater a month after I boat her.

Both the 2B and the IIc engines have crankcase inspection plates which can be removed to gain access to the sump and the crankshaft area. These are located on the left hand side of the engine when viewed from the flywheel.

See page 10 of this manual ..... http://www.bluemoment.com/manuals/VolvoMD11C_D_17C_D.pdf

With the plates removed you can (assuming access can be made)get a hand in to mop out the sump.

As regards the oil, it is just a very small amount like a c.c. or less and make sure you give the engine a good whirl on the starter to expel the oil so you don't get a hydraulic lock.

Don't forget the gearbox as it may be vented ( I cant remember if it is or not)
 
If you have sea water in the engine you have a couple of days at the most before corrosion starts.

Get a couple of gallons of WD 40 and some spray cans. Wash the electrics in fresh water then dunk thoroughly in WD 40. Do this ASAP. Blow dry and leave somewhere sunny. If in the UK maybe the airing cabinet.

ENGINE Do not start by disturbing the injector system, leave it alone. Wash down externals Blow dry if you can and spray with WD 40. Check the dipstick BEFORE draining oil. If the dipstick does not show evidence of water you need not change the oil.

If the sump has water in it change the oil, you can change the filter but it will be OK to leave it.

IMPORTANT Before attempting to start the engine turn it over by hand. As you have the starter motor off you can use a big screwdriver on the ring gear. This checks for water in the cylinders causing a hydraulic lock.

Now look at the fuel system. As the sinking was partial it is likely that the fuel tank filler and vent were not submerged so no water entered the system. If that is the case there is little need to disturb the injector pump. Most pumps but not all are sealed units so even if submerged they do not get water in them. Find out the make and model number of the pump and phone the local agent or diesel shop to check about if it is sealed. If not get it off and get it to the diesel shop ASAP. On some pumps there is a side plate that can be removed and the water will drain out, flush with fresh then WD 40 . I have done this on an old Gardner and it started right up and is still running years later.

Assuming the exhaust was submerged you might have an excess of water in the waterlocks and silencers. drain if you can.

I would shut off the raw water intake next just in case we need to do a lot of cranking.

Check to see if sea water entered the batteries if it did they are toast.

Now try to start. You do not need the alternator at this stage. But it would do no harm to have it refitted. If it gives a solid clunk and does not turn stop trying as this is evidence of a hydraulic lock and you need to get the water out of the cylinders. Slacken the injectors but leave the pipe from the injector pump attached. On something like a Perkin 4108 this will be enough.

If you have that invention of the devil copper sleeves round the injectors they are a sod to remove. [ Most Volvos ] I would get a diesel specialist to pull them for you.

Spin the engine on the starter till it stops spitting water. Refit injectors and try again.

You may need some reserve battery cranking capacity if so GET SOME SOMEHOW you have 24 hours to get it going.

Once it starts open the raw water supply and check that the primary water pump is turning if you have left the alternator off. Let the engine run for about 30 mins. This will evaporate off any residual water. Check the oil. If the dipstick is covered with what looks like dirty mayonnaise you have water contamination of the oil . You will need at least 2 oil and filter changes. The first one should be flushing oil. [ If you can not find any use 25% diesel and 75% cheap SAE 40 or 50.

N.B. I have done 4 of these and all were got got running.
 
I have a MD11C bottom end ( and starter), with conrods and 1 piston if you need it. No fuel system parts.
Located north irish Sea!.
 
Very sad to hear.
I've flooded my Volvo twice, don't ask but it won't happen again.
This happened before the internet but I got advice from a very helpful outfit on the Thames.
First thing they said was don't panic, I think they could tell from my high pitched voice.
They advised to drain as much as possible, fit a new filter, refill with the cheapest supermarket oil and spin her with the decompressor open, till your arms fall off, drain and fill again till there is no more emulsified oil, then do it once more for luck. I think we did it about 4 or 5 times then try to start her, if she starts, warm her up and have a look at the oil, it should be clean, drain and fill with your oil of choice. It will be easy this time as you won't be extracting cold oil. That's if you can't drain via the sump.
I did this about 10 years ago, engines still fine.
Good luck with the electrics.
Please keep us updated.
 
Hi all, thanks for all the advice.

So i spent yesterday afternoon and evening until i couldn't see anything anymore down at the boat, and did the following.

pulled the dipstick and watched a fountain of water come out, then used my Pella to empty sump.
refilled with oil
pulled injectors and filled with diesel
removed alternator and starter motor
turned engine over and mopped up diesel that poured out, then refitted injectors
pumped oil out again
clean fuel lines and fuel filter
refilled with oil
handcranked her and she started
ran for 15 minutes ( i know you all said longer, but it was dark and i was working by head torch)
removed oil, refilled way above normal, and left her - i'll not be able to get down for another 10 days due to work.

I've brought the alternator and starter motor home and i'm going to try the washing and baking thing.

Thanks all for your help!

James
 
Be of good cheer! Avocet sank in seawater at the hands of her previous owner and was submerged for at least 12 hours. When we bought her, I was told that 24 hours after that, the oil was drained, fuel replaced and the engine was started. Alternator and starter were toast (as was the wiring loom and ignition switch, in fact). Oil was changed a total of 3 times before there was no sign of mayonnaise in it.

...and that was 25 years ago!

I did a partial engine rebuild about 12 years ago and (more out of curiosity than anything else) removed the big end bearings. The crank was nice and shiny underneath. The main bearings are big roller bearings and have never been removed. Injection and lift pumps have never been removed either. All I could see inside the crank case area was a bit of rust on the pushrods in a few places (and then , not on the bearing surfaces).
 
brokethebox said:
Hi all, thanks for all the advice.


I've brought the alternator and starter motor home and i'm going to try the washing and baking thing.

Thanks all for your help!

James
Click to expand...

Don't miss out the dunk in WD 40 or at least a big spray but dunking is much better. WD stands for Water Dispersant, this is what it does best.

Congrats on getting it running, bet it was a good moment when it rumbled into life.
 
Hey all,

yes, intend to do drain down to max level, start, get warm, then change oil again when i'm next down and see where we are from there.

It was a huge relief to hear her start, not least because my arms were about to fall off from spinning the flywheel!

The didn't get a bath in wd40, but certainly a heavy shower... We'll see, I'm not holding a huge amount of hope there.

James
 
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