Boat size, launching and recovery???

[RebelBex]

Hello all, we're seasoned sailors and are now considering buying a motor cruiser.

We'd like a boat which will provide comfort for 2 for weekends and be easily trailerable so we can either speed around at sea or potter around inland waterways.

I've done alot of research already, so am beginning to build a picture and have in my mind narrowed it down to something 22' - 26', but my husband seemed horrified when he saw a 22' in the water and said it was too big to handle on and off of a trailer. So, what I'd like to know is does the size really make any difference to the ease of launching/recovering?? Or is it more about the hull configuration.

Secondly, size does matter on the water, but I haven't a clue what the difference in handling would be, some guidance would be appreciated, the smallest I've seen has been 18'.

Thanks in advance.

 

[Kawasaki]

Hmm

 

[Kawasaki]

Sorry! pressed the wrong button an it will not delete!
So----
Hmm!
Pick the smallest boat you think will do the job for you.
If you intend launching and recovering on a regular basis.

You mention a 'Motor Cruiser'
Anything about the 23 ft/ 25ft will be the max to tow
A boat this size is rarely a snip to chuck in and out
Doable but with good planning and a decent slip

I had a Channel Island 22.
Probably over the top legally ref weight etc for towing
But I did it!
It was a real pain though.
Then I have launched, retrieved and obviously trailered 25 ft RIBS an the like with no problems
The boat that springs to mind is the American 'Trophy2203CC'
See MBM's article ref 'All Hands On Deck' May 2010 issue
Sports boats. RIBS, Fisingy cruisery type boats tested about 9 vessels in all written about
This will give you loads of ideas and info to think about

Size does matter in some respect
'Windage' matters quite a lot
Something with a tent on and lots of freeboard can be a bit of a nuisance.

Beware of some 'Sports Cruisers' that have no walk around deck capability
Frustrating when Anchoring, mooring, launching, recovering etc.

Don't be put off by a vessel fitted with an outboard
The modern ones are really quite economical
Easier to service that an inboard with an outdrive

Oh! and said issue in MBM has an 8 page article ref towing and launching
No I aint nowt to do with MBM!
But credit where credit is due etc

Then again
To shoot me self in the foot
Pick the biggest boat you think you will be comfy with
Good on ere innit!!

Oh!
And Welcome Seasoned Sailors

 

[hlb]

I'm comming from the point, that I used to be a truck driver to the middle east. Baghdad, Saudi ect. Been happy with 50/100 tons on the back.

Right so. Two tons of boat on the back of a good 4 wheel drive with an 8ft 6" beam, is alot to handle if going any distance. It's not so much the going as the stopping. Yep I towed a cuddy like this, all over the country, but then I had the experience, but still not the brakes!!

Cant remember launching or recovery being much of a problem, except getting the boat to sit right on the trailer. A couple of scafolding poles could have solved this.

So, I've carried double the legal weight for comercial vehicles, with no problems. I never got caught!!

But, I'd be carefull about getting close to the limit, even with the biggest 4x4's.

Tuther thing is. Whats you driving skills like, with some thing far wider than the car, on the back??

I'd say 22FT is about the limit for normal use. Not saying you could not get something bigger there if you had to and with care.

Trailer law is difficult to interpret. I dont thing the police understand it. So mostly you will be ok if the rig looks right.

The big problem is, that with comercial, it's the trailer that stops the truck. But with cars, it's the car that stops the trailer, ok with over run brakes. But the trailer is still pushing.

 

[AndieMac]

So, what I'd like to know is does the size really make any difference to the ease of launching/recovering??

Once you have selected the boat (compromise?) that you feel will best suit your needs, within the towing capacity of your vehicle, select a good quality, submergable trailer with practicle drive-on capabilities.
If you can learn the skill of driving on and off the trailer with confidence, the size of the boat becomes less important.

Are there any practical trailer-boat courses that include the launch and retrieval process near where you live?

The variable will be the different slipway/ramps you use, and also becoming accustomed to towing the large dimensions, width and height of the rig.

 

[rafiki_]

We used to haul a 22 ft cuddy behind a Discovery. No problem to tow and launch. Big problem in weekending. So moved up to a 25 ft sports cruiser. Great for weekending, but a nightmare to tow and launch, even behind the Disco. So parked her in the Norfolk Broads. Great fun and very safe, but a nightmare to get to from the Midlands.

 

[GrowingLad]

I've towed my boat from the UK to Greece plus up to the North of Greece and back on very hilly roads.

She's 21' and about 1.5 tons.

Yep, HLB is right, getting going even with an old dog of a 4x4 is okay, its the stopping. I remember coming down to dover and getting a bit of a fright.

As for towing, defintely get a bulldog anti snake bar, stops the trailer weaving all over the place and is worth it's weight in gold!!

As for retreiving, 2nd the scafold poles. I don't have them on my trailer but then again I tend to jump out and make sure she's postioned properly on the trailer...not a problem in the med...in the UK in winter...I don't even want to think about it.

You're fine on a good day but if you have a bit of a cross breeze the front of the boat might be lined up nicely sitting on the bunks and then you find the rear getting blown one way or the other.

I'd done a fair bit of driving with Land Rovers with big trailers so I was quite happy to tow the boat, remember to give yourself plenty of breaking space, take the corners a bit wider so the trailer doesn't mount the curb and take your time when reversing.

I've got bunks, but it's not such a problem as I launch with the use of a tractor so the trailer is quite well in the water, if you are using a 4x4 on a shallow slip, maybe rollers might be easier to winch the boat back on the trailer.

Like most things with boats you need to take your time when coming back on the trailer, get lined up, take the wind/current into consideration but just take it slowly slowly, if you aren't happy, back up and start again.

As for size for a weekend, mines okay in size for a couple of days, I wouldn't want to go much smaller.

 

[STEVEDUNSTABLE]

Hello all, we're seasoned sailors and are now considering buying a motor cruiser.

We'd like a boat which will provide comfort for 2 for weekends and be easily trailerable so we can either speed around at sea or potter around inland waterways.

I've done alot of research already, so am beginning to build a picture and have in my mind narrowed it down to something 22' - 26', but my husband seemed horrified when he saw a 22' in the water and said it was too big to handle on and off of a trailer. So, what I'd like to know is does the size really make any difference to the ease of launching/recovering?? Or is it more about the hull configuration.

Secondly, size does matter on the water, but I haven't a clue what the difference in handling would be, some guidance would be appreciated, the smallest I've seen has been 18'.

Thanks in advance.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Lv2r5LLeBh8 yes im the twit at the helm.... dont know if this will help you, but ive been doing it this way oneway or anther for over 20+yrs with no major probs.. the boat is a sealine s24 n perfect for 2 people for inland or offshore.....if you want any more info PM me.

 

[GrowingLad]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Lv2r5LLeBh8 yes im the twit at the helm.... dont know if this will help you, but ive been doing it this way oneway or anther for over 20+yrs with no major probs.. the boat is a sealine s24 n perfect for 2 people for inland or offshore.....if you want any more info PM me.

Was that your Son calling you an "Idiot" for going behind the bush??

I'd dock him some pocket money for that one

 

[STEVEDUNSTABLE]

Was that your Son calling you an "Idiot" for going behind the bush??

I'd dock him some pocket money for that one

"YES " !!!!.....not noticed that before !!!!....thanks for pointing that out...hes 13 1/2 but might not live to see 13 3/4 !!!!!!!!.......do you want to buy him ??

 

[GrowingLad]

.......do you want to buy him ??

I'll pass on that one thanks, I've already got one rug rat and another two arriving in November....

 

[RebelBex]

Wow, I'm overwhelmed at how helpful you've all been, it's making this so much easier, thank you all for the trouble you've gone to. Apologies now if this is a long reply.

I think from your replies I'll aim for something 20-23', which we'll be towing with a Discovery 2 V8. I think also that we'd be better off buying a boat without a trailer and probably hiring instead for the few times a year we'll need it. More on that later ...

Whilst reading your replies one thing that wasn't stated is why a larger boat was such a nightmare to launch [Kawasaki & Rafiki]? And is it worth thinking about the depth of the V hull when choosing the boat, as from what I understand the deeper the V, the better the grip on the water in waves, so this is preferable, but not if it makes launching/recovery more difficult.

Discovery Owners: Do you advise dropping into low range when launching/recovering?

Regarding the towing itself, I've towed a 4 berth caravan with a Citroen BX turbo diesel, so have had some experience and yes agree the antisnake bar is a must, but thanks for tip because I'd not have thought it necessary on a boat trailer. In addition, I hired a trailer similar to GrowingLads, it was certainly entertaining! I just remember it made so much noise you'd not know if you'd taken anything out with it because you'd not hear it over the ongoing clattering!
'I wonder ... Hiring is this an option?'

Yes, at that very moment in my message I thought I'd call the hire company to investigate. Turns out Southampton Trailer Hire have a new rollered trailer capable of taking a 3.5 tonne/8.5m boat, complete with an extendable towing hook for shallow water. Be a snip to hire when we want to go long haul instead of buying with or buying a new trailer. Plus apparently the rollers mean you can do the business in shallower water, so no guide poles needed. Problem solved!

Right ... to find a boat ... Any advise on the good, the bad and the ugly, would be much appreciated. The same sort of advise on engines would be helpful too. I really don't want to land up like friends of ours who after just a season of bobbing around in their Fairline Fury found they were in for a massive bill which then put them off altogether!

Thanks again for all your help, pictures, video, articles, etc, they've all been very helpful.
Happy boating.
PS: GrowingLad, good luck with the expected new arrivals.

 

[STEVEDUNSTABLE]

Wow, I'm overwhelmed at how helpful you've all been, it's making this so much easier, thank you all for the trouble you've gone to. Apologies now if this is a long reply.

I think from your replies I'll aim for something 20-23', which we'll be towing with a Discovery 2 V8. I think also that we'd be better off buying a boat without a trailer and probably hiring instead for the few times a year we'll need it. More on that later ...

Whilst reading your replies one thing that wasn't stated is why a larger boat was such a nightmare to launch [Kawasaki & Rafiki]? And is it worth thinking about the depth of the V hull when choosing the boat, as from what I understand the deeper the V, the better the grip on the water in waves, so this is preferable, but not if it makes launching/recovery more difficult.

Discovery Owners: Do you advise dropping into low range when launching/recovering?

Regarding the towing itself, I've towed a 4 berth caravan with a Citroen BX turbo diesel, so have had some experience and yes agree the antisnake bar is a must, but thanks for tip because I'd not have thought it necessary on a boat trailer. In addition, I hired a trailer similar to GrowingLads, it was certainly entertaining! I just remember it made so much noise you'd not know if you'd taken anything out with it because you'd not hear it over the ongoing clattering!
'I wonder ... Hiring is this an option?'

Yes, at that very moment in my message I thought I'd call the hire company to investigate. Turns out Southampton Trailer Hire have a new rollered trailer capable of taking a 3.5 tonne/8.5m boat, complete with an extendable towing hook for shallow water. Be a snip to hire when we want to go long haul instead of buying with or buying a new trailer. Plus apparently the rollers mean you can do the business in shallower water, so no guide poles needed. Problem solved!

Right ... to find a boat ... Any advise on the good, the bad and the ugly, would be much appreciated. The same sort of advise on engines would be helpful too. I really don't want to land up like friends of ours who after just a season of bobbing around in their Fairline Fury found they were in for a massive bill which then put them off altogether!

Thanks again for all your help, pictures, video, articles, etc, they've all been very helpful.
Happy boating.
PS: GrowingLad, good luck with the expected new arrivals.

as a disco owner.....the way i launch is ALLWAYS put into low range BEFORE getting on the slipway, once your all ready to back it into the wet stuff select FORWARD 1st gear in low range AND ROLL BACK ON THE BRAKES only....this means the in the event of any probs its just a case of lift your hoof of the clutch and forward you go avoiding any poteintal drowning of the car.....(awaits lots of critisisum from other technique users).......anyway, thats how i doit so pay yer money n take yer pick.....we all make a bog of it sometimes so dont worry about doing it wrong......

 

[AndieMac]

as a disco owner.....the way i launch is ALLWAYS put into low range BEFORE getting on the slipway, once your all ready to back it into the wet stuff select FORWARD 1st gear in low range AND ROLL BACK ON THE BRAKES only....this means the in the event of any probs its just a case of lift your hoof of the clutch and forward you go avoiding any poteintal drowning of the car.....(awaits lots of critisisum from other technique users).......anyway, thats how i doit so pay yer money n take yer pick.....we all make a bog of it sometimes so dont worry about doing it wrong......

The method you mention Steve is particuarly useful in automatics backing down steep ramps that have loose stones on the surface. As the weight of the boat and trailer begins to pull the vehicle backwards on the decline, put the auto into drive (idle only) and ease on the brakes.
Relying on brakes alone often sees the front wheels lock-up in the loose stones, as the outfit slides backwards towards the water.

This process is useful when the tow vehicle is a normal 2wd car and the boat and trailer weight is up around the max. allowable.

 

[GrowingLad]

as a disco owner.....the way i launch is ALLWAYS put into low range BEFORE getting on the slipway, once your all ready to back it into the wet stuff select FORWARD 1st gear in low range AND ROLL BACK ON THE BRAKES only....this means the in the event of any probs its just a case of lift your hoof of the clutch and forward you go avoiding any poteintal drowning of the car.....(awaits lots of critisisum from other technique users).......anyway, thats how i doit so pay yer money n take yer pick.....we all make a bog of it sometimes so dont worry about doing it wrong......

In the UK when I was launching on steep, muddy slips this was the method I used. A couple of times even with brakes we just locked up and slid backwards (yes I had a few choice words to say) Quickly let up the clutch and thankfully pulled us away from the salty stuff, although I used to leave it in 2nd in low ratio with diff lock.

Over here it tends to be more flat with quite a bit of sand so I had to put it in reverse to push it back in, on occasion with water coming up to the bottom of the rear door. Not great for the car but then again that was the reason behind buying an old work horse and not spending loads on a nice sparkly one.

Not great for wheel bearings though. I had to change one and when the guy got the hub off, the bearings and casings just fell out in broken up pieces.....

 

[STEVEDUNSTABLE]

In the UK when I was launching on steep, muddy slips this was the method I used. A couple of times even with brakes we just locked up and slid backwards (yes I had a few choice words to say) Quickly let up the clutch and thankfully pulled us away from the salty stuff, although I used to leave it in 2nd in low ratio with diff lock.

Over here it tends to be more flat with quite a bit of sand so I had to put it in reverse to push it back in, on occasion with water coming up to the bottom of the rear door. Not great for the car but then again that was the reason behind buying an old work horse and not spending loads on a nice sparkly one.

Not great for wheel bearings though. I had to change one and when the guy got the hub off, the bearings and casings just fell out in broken up pieces.....

my old "j"reg disco had a difflock but the "w"reg one doesnt. but its all canceled out by the fact it has much wider tyres and much lower gear ratios in low range.. you could select 1st in low on tickover, go and eat a 3 course meal and it would of just about moved 25ft !! my policy is to never let the water go over the tyres on 2 the rims and then wash off straight away (there is a hose next to the slipway where i go). but i except that not all slips are are steep enough to keep the car dry.

 

[DavidJ]

We towed a 23ft Sealine down to the Med for a few years. It's quite a big beasty to tow and even bigger beasty to launch. We ended up having it craned in and out which although costing a hundred euros each way saved on trailor salt water damage, cables, brakes, wheel bearings etc.
The 19ft Sealine we had before was just about do'able for weekend launching without too much stress.

 

[duncan]

firstly you have had the comment's on size and weight - the difference with a caravan is weight! caravans are designed to be towed - boats are put on trailers to be towed (and then people fill them up with other gear as well

launching pretty much any size of boat on a suitable incline, with no tide or current and no wind (obviously with no time pressures either) - is straightforward. the difference between 21 and 25ft (generally 1200kg and 2500kg dry respectively) is negligible because you aren't using 'man power' at any point in the process, and nothing is fighting you either.

shallow slips mean you can't float the boat off just as the tow vehicles rear wheels touch the (mirror flat) water...... now weight and trailer design become factors, either because of the necessary manhandling of the hull, or the need to detach the trailer and rope it/push the whole lot into deeper water etc etc

add cross winds and/or currents and you are trying to hold large forces that quickly 'square or cube' with length - the relationship between hull shape and trailer construction/design play a part in some of the stages (both launch and recovery) but it's not the root issue.

hiring a trailer sounds attractive - however when I used to be running down the french and spanish auto-routes I wanted to know the exact history of the wheel bearings and hitch, when I put the brakes on and the overrun nudged the trailer brakes on I wanted to know the state of the brake linings - one dip in salt water and a couple of months later they can be useless (try soaking a piece of cardboard in salt water then leaving it to dry for a few months - strength v fresh cardboard ?) - and that's before we get into cables... if I was hiring occasionally I would probably arrange to have the boat 'shipped' instead - a little more money but a whole load less hassle etc

not trying to put you off at all, I loved the freedom, but eventually I got feed up with the extremely limited launch facilities in the UK and Europe (generally) - let alone the question of what to do with the boat once launched!

 

[SgtColon]

On the road I cannot imagine the length of the boat on the trailer to be the legal problem, This is just a matter of required markings. The main concern of Traffic Police Officers when it comes to vehicles pulling trailers will be the Gross Train Weight ie The manufacturers maximum recommended weight of the vehicle added to the weight of the trailer and its load. This is easy to check by requiring said vehicle to go to a weighbridge that might be some 10 miles or so away, escorting it there and weighing it in. If found to exceed the gross train weight the trailer would be prohibited from being towed away from that point by that vehicle and of course a hefty fine and consideration being given to prosecuting the driver for Dangerous Condition. The consequence of being involved in a road collision whilst towing a load too heavy for the vehicle could lead to being prosecuted for Careless or Dangerous Driving.
I am very glad that this question was raised by RebelBex I am also currently carrying out research in the hope of purchasing a sports cuddy cruiser. I need to have some suitable weekend accommodation on it. The Sealine S24 looks to be just about perfect as does the Searay Sundancer and Bayliner 2255/2245 but these are all in the 21’ range and over 2 tonnes. My real concern is how practical it is to launch and recover these from a slipway. I am wishing to keep it on a trailer most of the time so that I can use it on the West and East coast. Is there a serious risk of damage being caused and what purpose would the scaffolding poles serve – Looking for a polite answer please.
I would love to hear from more people who slip launch such boats as these.

I have been a lurker for some time on this forum. I hope that all you contributors understand how appreciated your comments and responses are. There are I’m sure hundreds of lurkers like me who would want to offer their thanks for your time and experience.

 

[STEVEDUNSTABLE]

On the road I cannot imagine the length of the boat on the trailer to be the legal problem, This is just a matter of required markings. The main concern of Traffic Police Officers when it comes to vehicles pulling trailers will be the Gross Train Weight ie The manufacturers maximum recommended weight of the vehicle added to the weight of the trailer and its load. This is easy to check by requiring said vehicle to go to a weighbridge that might be some 10 miles or so away, escorting it there and weighing it in. If found to exceed the gross train weight the trailer would be prohibited from being towed away from that point by that vehicle and of course a hefty fine and consideration being given to prosecuting the driver for Dangerous Condition. The consequence of being involved in a road collision whilst towing a load too heavy for the vehicle could lead to being prosecuted for Careless or Dangerous Driving.
I am very glad that this question was raised by RebelBex I am also currently carrying out research in the hope of purchasing a sports cuddy cruiser. I need to have some suitable weekend accommodation on it. The Sealine S24 looks to be just about perfect as does the Searay Sundancer and Bayliner 2255/2245 but these are all in the 21’ range and over 2 tonnes. My real concern is how practical it is to launch and recover these from a slipway. I am wishing to keep it on a trailer most of the time so that I can use it on the West and East coast. Is there a serious risk of damage being caused and what purpose would the scaffolding poles serve – Looking for a polite answer please.
I would love to hear from more people who slip launch such boats as these.

I have been a lurker for some time on this forum. I hope that all you contributors understand how appreciated your comments and responses are. There are I’m sure hundreds of lurkers like me who would want to offer their thanks for your time and experience.

polite answer....(i hope)....ive allways towed n slipped all the boats ive ever been envolved with or owned.. that said when i bought my sealine new 9yrs ago, i did consider not towing for about 20mins!!!!!!...without wanting to sound bigheaded, i can, if needed, launch n recover the boat snglehanded.. BUT BUT BUT....more hands light work etc...its all in the organising BEFOREHAND...IF EVERYBODY DOES AS REQUESTED...the best thing to do is to go to a busy slipway and watch how others do it AND ask as many questions as possible. it would take a book to discribe how i do it word for word but if there is anything spersific you want to ask please PM me.