Boat share / syndicate?

[brucebigbear]

I am looking to buy a 1/4 or 1/3 share in 30-36ft yacht based pretty much anywhere from the Solent round to Chatham. I have done the usual Google search and found a couple of websites but not much of interest. I am not interested in the commercial co-ownership/charter model and would really prefer finding 2 or 3 like minded reasonably capable individuals keen to sail and share the cost.
1. Can anybody advise on the best way to find?
2. What pitfalls should I be looking to avoid?

Thanks

Bruce

 

[RJJ]

I am looking to buy a 1/4 or 1/3 share in 30-36ft yacht based pretty much anywhere from the Solent round to Chatham. I have done the usual Google search and found a couple of websites but not much of interest. I am not interested in the commercial co-ownership/charter model and would really prefer finding 2 or 3 like minded reasonably capable individuals keen to sail and share the cost.
1. Can anybody advise on the best way to find?
2. What pitfalls should I be looking to avoid?

Thanks

Bruce

I've previously looked into this. Most people would embark upon this with someone they already had a relationship with.

I would start out by being very specific as to what "Like-minded" is. I personally know four separate boats who have set out to do this as halves or trios. Three lasted two to four years then one person became sufficiently fed up (although not acrimonious, to my knowledge) to pull out. the fourth still going after seven years ;_)

What kind of boat? what usage? How will you split the bills? Will you sail together, or have separate weekends? How much will you put away towards maintenance? Do you have the same appetite to do DIY, or will you be paying for professional help?

What is your exit arrangement in case one of you wants to pull out?

 

[brucebigbear]

I've previously looked into this. Most people would embark upon this with someone they already had a relationship with.

I would start out by being very specific as to what "Like-minded" is. I personally know four separate boats who have set out to do this as halves or trios. Three lasted two to four years then one person became sufficiently fed up (although not acrimonious, to my knowledge) to pull out. the fourth still going after seven years ;_)

What kind of boat? what usage? How will you split the bills? Will you sail together, or have separate weekends? How much will you put away towards maintenance? Do you have the same appetite to do DIY, or will you be paying for professional help?

What is your exit arrangement in case one of you wants to pull out?

Thanks RJJ. Helpful.

From what you are saying and from what I have so far read elsewhere I suspect the importance of some form of written agreement addressing these points cannot be understated. The benefits of sharing costs and perhaps being able to afford a larger/newer boat than you might otherwise be able to afford are to me attractive and outweigh what might be seen as risks that it does not work out as planned.

To answer the specifics in my case: a long keeled, cruising boat preferred but not obligatory, one week in 3 or 4 allocated depending on the share with a 2 week summer holiday, equal share of bills with an agreed payment in to a "sinking fund" for more major planned replacement/maintenance items. The assumption would be separate use but with the hope that there will be some shared - because we all get on so well together!!

 

[Graham376]

Not done it with a boat but several glider syndicates and have seen some fall out completely. If sailing jointly as a crew and local sailing, life is much easier but, if sailing separately - 1/4 share so you have one weekend every four weeks or, one day every two weeks, which may turn out too wet or windy to sail. Who gets prefence for annual 2 or 3 week summer cruise? Can you bring friends on board for the day or weekend?

However the boat is sailed, who does the maintenance? If one or two don't want to be involved, do they pay extra subs in so those who do the maintenance pay less? A couple decide expensive extras would be nice to have but you may be strapped for cash, who decides? If not happy do you have the right to sell to whoever you want and if the person isn't acceptable to the others, do they have to buy you out?

May work well for a racing boat but personally, I wouldn't consider it with a cruising boat.

 

[pcatterall]

It can be a good way to enjoy a yacht for with less cost but sometimes there are more demands like at getting all ship shape for the next member.
With 6 different owners we find that we have to be more rigorous about putting everything back where it came from, recording, fuel. If the bog goes the onous is on you to fix it before you leave the boat ( not for your next visit etc.
If you wish I will send you details of our share system ( but alas not where you want it!) to give you an idea.

 

[CJ13]

Have you tried Yacht Fractions?
We had a shared boat through them many years ago and they were excellen.

 

[Laser310]

I was part of a 3-person syndicate that owned a ~33ft boat.

The boat was specifically for one-design racing. Sail purchasing was strictly controlled by the class. The boat had no motor and no electronics.

So.., there wasn't much to disagree about - there just wasn't much to spend money on, besides the entirely predictable cost of sails on a schedule outside of our control, winter storage.., occasional new halyard or sheet or block... insurance.., bottom cleaning, and occasional bottom painting.

Skippering was by rotation, and generally, at least two of the syndicate members were on board for every race. Syndicate members had the right of first refusal for crew places on days that they were not skippering.

We had no written document - we were friends (still are), and trusted each other

This worked very well for many years.

So.., I would say, the keys to success are a clear understanding of what the boat is for.., and predictable costs that are not a burden to any of the owners.

Obviously, with a racing boat, the costs can get quite large for even a small boat - especially where sail purchases are unrestricted.

but even on a cruising boat, i could see one person saying "this main just has terrible shape - the leech is way too loose.., i think we should get a new one. and the response is something like "what? it's got another 5 years at least!"

 

[Skysail]

I shared with 2 others for 8 years. Basically it worked OK; we often sailed together, and did the maintenance, as 3 engineers it was straightforward. We sailed more frequently, if it was your turn you took it! When we were working it was a lower cost way to sail.

We had a written agreement based on the RYA version.

Where it did not work so well was that we tended to fix the boat if things did not work; cosmetic matters were lower priority; we therefore lost more than we might have when it came to wind up the partnership and sell up. Two of us then bought our own boats, so we were still keen.

 

[brucebigbear]

Thank you all. Very helpful. Some wise advice.
JFowler - I am looking at Yacht Fractions - appetite whetted but none that I want to jump in on just yet.
pcatterall - if you could that would be appreciated. Not sure how to send you my details off forum but will investigate how and see if I can pm you.
Great resource this forum!

 

[tudorsailor]

I found a partner to buy a 1/3 of my yacht about 8 years ago through Yacht Fractions. It has been great. Much easier to sail far as we dovetail our weeks. So we get from Ionian to Venice and back in a season for example. I amended the standard agreement to include a section on the eventuality of death or either partner and also my approval should he decide to sell his 1/3.
As 2/3 owner I do all the organising and 1/3 partner turns up to a fully prepared boat!
Recommended
TS

 

[markspark7]

I looked at Yacht fraction as well and spoke to the guy who runs it (David) , nice guy and very knowledgeable .
He did tell me that the prices advertised are merely a guide price and could be negotiated in line with the agreed boat value .
Most YF shares include a contract where subs are paid monthly to cover all maintenance done professionally unless agreed by all parties.
I'm not sure I would like a situation where one person has the controlling interest, would much prefer a majority vote among all share holders. But that is purely my own views.

 

[Lightwave395]

I did it for 4 years some time ago but in a Hamble based racing syndicate, we started with a Hunter formula 28 then went to a Beneteau 1st Class Europe. As mentioned above I would expect it to be more suited to racing but if everyone agrees on the rules I'd see no reason why a cruising syndicate shouldn't work.
Ours was simple, the boat went racing whenever possible, we all shuffled around position wise but we were 4 ex-505 dinghy racers so all fairly competent and as we were also competitive there was never much disagreement about replacement/upgrade gear and what there was got resolved over a few beers.
We did have a simple written agreement and admin wise I got the job of running the spreadsheet... the simple rule was that the boat went racing every / most weekend as long as at least one owner was onboard. If it wasn't going racing any of us could go for a bit of family cruising on a 1st come 1st served basis (not much comfort on a Formula 28 though).
We disbanded in a friendly manner as we couldn't agree on a what the next boat would be, sold the Beneteau and shared out the proceeds of that and the remaining kitty, 2 of us went off and bought a half tonner, one bought a bigger more cruising boat and the other guy took up rowing, 25+ years later we're all still mates.
I personally would never have done this with strangers but that's just my view

 

[hannahlynn]

Does anyone (including @pcatterall ) have any samples of syndicate documentation they would be willing to share? I'm particularly interested in: modified versions of the rya sample contract, scheduling spreadsheet/template for sharing out the season fairly, 'manuals' for closedown/handover, regular checks and maintenance logs etc. We can build all of these from scratch but it would be great to get a headstart!

 

[Tranona]

Thanks RJJ. Helpful.

From what you are saying and from what I have so far read elsewhere I suspect the importance of some form of written agreement addressing these points cannot be understated. The benefits of sharing costs and perhaps being able to afford a larger/newer boat than you might otherwise be able to afford are to me attractive and outweigh what might be seen as risks that it does not work out as planned.

To answer the specifics in my case: a long keeled, cruising boat preferred but not obligatory, one week in 3 or 4 allocated depending on the share with a 2 week summer holiday, equal share of bills with an agreed payment in to a "sinking fund" for more major planned replacement/maintenance items. The assumption would be separate use but with the hope that there will be some shared - because we all get on so well together!!

Pretty unusual to find syndicates for that type of boat, first because there are very few around and second because people who own them tend to be wedded to their boat and have no inclination to share with others. Most successful syndicates for cruising boats start from friendships and often formed with the sole purpose of buying a boat to share. I suspect that a growing area is intergenerational shares where dad can no longer justify a big boat and offspring can't afford to run a boat. I know two of these locally.

On the other hand probably the most popular types of syndicates are either for racing or for holidays abroad such as the ones Yacht Fractions put together. These tend to be bigger (3-6 members) because they are based on holiday type use with larger and often newer boats , sometimes with professional management.

There is always the possibility of buying a share from a retiring member, although again as many boat shares are based on personal relationships, often the boat is sold and the partnership dissolved.

As you have no doubt found there is no real marketplace for syndicates reflecting the tiny number that exist on a purely financial rather than personal basis.

Sorry if this sounds negative, but it is a tough one and wish you luck in your search.

 

[hannahlynn]

Thank you all. Very helpful. Some wise advice.
JFowler - I am looking at Yacht Fractions - appetite whetted but none that I want to jump in on just yet.
pcatterall - if you could that would be appreciated. Not sure how to send you my details off forum but will investigate how and see if I can pm you.
Great resource this forum!

I've amassed a lot of information now; made an offer on the 'perfect' yacht but were pipped at the post. Have you found out how to PM off the forum?