Boat Selling experience - Brokers Obsolete!

[Chris_Robb]

Having signed contracts on Corsair yesterday, I was surprised how quickley it all happened.

When I first started to put her on the market - I had some great advice from the forum. Some one suggested a wbe site called www.myboatdetails.com. For £45 I registered with them and started to set up the details - in what was a wonderful and easily built site. I then put her on Boatsforsale.com with a link to the other site. Within a week I had had 4 enquiries - and 4 viewers. I think the clarity of the website meant that I did not have calls from any time wasters - as all viewers were serious.

My boat details is very prominant on google search - by typing in "Victory 40" the web site for Corsair comes up top of the list - bloody marvellous. try it.

The other benefit of using the internet is that I did not have to waste time sending details to possibly interested people.

Surprisingly the Yatching Monthly advert resulted in several calls - all of whom were time wasters. (perhaps not so surprisingly).

Following advice from Forumites - I cleaned and cleaned and removed everything apart from judiciously placed lifestyle objects - bottles of good wine etc. The boat was dry and heated and when anyone came the ancient Webasto was pumping out the cals. From viewers comments - they said - more than anything else - it made them think that the boat was loved. So this was the most beneficial advice from you all.

I am also please that she is going to a good home- couldn't have been a nicer family. Off to Tarbut on the West Coast of Jockland, so Forumites up there watch out for a double decker!

Initially I had thought to sell through a Broker - but initial duplicity on their part involving a potential related buyer and a rediculously low price made me very suspicious of their motives. I did not proceed with them - but they proceed to advertise - trying to presuring me into using them.

I think I may have proved that brokers could now be obsolete.

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[Guest]

Down to making the effort

Like all things - if you put in the effort and think through logically etc. it usually works.

The point about removing all the junk accumulated over years of sailing etc. is VERY valid ...... all you have to do is consider how YOU would react on seeing a boat clean, warm and tidy - against some of the boats at brokers / yards that look as though they are the junk heap ......

Good on yer !!


<hr width=100% size=1>Nigel ...
<A target="_blank" HREF=http://www.qqbaltic.com/index.html>http://www.qqbaltic.com/index.html</A> For all those disbelievers ! /forums/images/icons/cool.gif

 

[kimhollamby]

Yes and no

Chris, glad you had a good experience -- having been in the position of taking months to sell a boat (second time unlucky, my first sold before the details could even get stuck in an ad) I know the relief of seeing the deal done.

However your snapshot view of what an ad on Yachting Monthly classified (and here online with ybw.com because all are listed and can in fact be published early on <A target="_blank" HREF=http://www.ybw.com/ybw/class/boats.htm>http://www.ybw.com/ybw/class/boats.htm</A>) is sadly not representative of the experience of many that provide us with positive feedback. Okay, you would expect me to say that, wouldn't you?!

Ownership profile on Yachting Monthly suggests there are very few time-wasters in the mix per se, although there's no accounting for the way that some people think and behave when contacting others.

I think there's more we should be doing for private classified ads here and as soon as we get a major back-end change in the actual classified department in place I'm sure that will be reviewed.

None of this really points to the demise of brokers either (and that's not a defence by any means, just an observation). There have always beween ways in which owners have sold and bought boats privately, from classifieds in various types of magazine through to postcards in newsagent windows.

The rise of the Internet might serve to keep everyone on the commercial side of the fence on their toes, publishers included and good job too. But it will also spawn more instances of fraud and with the rapidly rising capital values of boat trades I suspect that, for many, there will always be a role for the (and only the) well sorted professional.

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[Chris_Robb]

Re: Yes and no

Kim - I think in many respects its the luck of the draw - in this case the final buyer was someone who did a google search and my boat came up top of the list on a worldwide search! That and the wonderful clarity of the myboatdetails.com web site did the rest. My comments relating to YM responses from the paper advert - these were people who did not have internet access - were that the limited size of an advert means more limited info - which means a lesser match of buyer to the goods - so more phone calls from lookers findingout more.

The power of the internet is huge - however as you point out - as larger and larger boats get sold this way - the more likelyhood of fraud there is. I don't think many sellers for example understand the pitfall of accepting payment with a foreign bank draft. These can take 3 to 6 months to really clear - despite a bank marking it as cleared! An article on the processof buying and selling privately might not go amiss.

I did have however a rather bad initial experience with a broker - which made me reject the broker route. I am sure they are not all that bad.<P ID="edit"><FONT SIZE=-1>Edited by Chris_Robb on 29/02/2004 12:32 (server time).</FONT></P>

 

[Ohdrat]

mm have to say when in was at the other end of the experience.. buying.. I bought direct from the owner who had advertiesed on the class website..

The boats I did view thro brokers 1 was v helpful and despite the fact that I was looking at the bottom end of the 2nd hand market he took me round 4 boats couldn't have been much better.. the other well seemed utterly unconcerned and was not very helpful..

For information the helpful broker was on the S Coast (based somewhere near the Hamble) and the unhelpful one was based on the Clyde..


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[JeremyF]

myboatdetails vs ybw

Hmm, not much comparison between myboatdetails and the flat listing of ads on ybw.

Having said that, Chris clearly took a lot of trouble with his marketing campaign; lots of decent pics and descriptions on myboatdetails, and then everything clean and shipshape so viewings did not disappoint.

It always amazes me that people don't bother to prepare things for sale; handing over a tired-looking boat to a broker is hardly going to get the best result.

<hr width=100% size=1><font color=red>Jeremy Flynn/forums/images/icons/crazy.gif
Dawn Chorus</font color=red>

 

[Chris_Robb]

Kim - an idea.....

May be both sites can co-exist and benefit each other - the YM site had the myboat url so people could click easliy through to see the full details. Perhaps YM should do a deal with myboatdetails to host the details. YM without doubt have the greater coverage, so selling the YM/Myboatdetails as a package could be just what the market is looking for.

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[david_e]

Re: Kim - an idea.....

Thanks for the update, it is nice to hear how peeps get on. From memory your boat looked good value for money so with good promotion etc it proves the market is there. Was the buyer looking for a Corsair 40 specifically or a boat of that type and with hindsight could you have a touch more for her?

PS Have you told your neighbour about your experience?)

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[david_e]

Re: update

Thanks for the update, it is nice to hear how peeps get on. From memory your boat looked good value for money so with good promotion etc it proves the market is there. Was the buyer looking for a Corsair 40 specifically or a boat of that type and with hindsight could you have a touch more for her?

PS Have you told your neighbour about your experience?)

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[LadyInBed]

Did you get your asking price?

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[BrianJ]

Chris,
Your the guy who was having second thoughts.... what made you do it ????

More importantly.. what the hell will you do now ????

Well done BrianJ

<hr width=100% size=1>BrianJ

 

[Rob_Webb]

Already tried

I think that Myboatdetails already tried to set up an arrangement with YBW but they weren't interested and so the alliance went to Sailing Today instead.

Originally MBD was designed to be a secondary/supporting sales tool with an ad in the press (or your local chandlery window) acting as the primary sales vehicle.

But as you can see, this has now changed and MBD's positioning as #1 in the Google search rankings makes it far more atractive and powerful than the YBW (and broker) listings.

I had a very successful experience selling my boat via MBD hence my 'interest' and comments!

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[kimhollamby]

Googley numbers

If MBD tried to set up a deal with ybw.com since Jan 2001 I am not aware of it. If it had tried chances are we couldn't have struck the deal thanks to existing arrangements.

Not sure which keyword search on Google MBD is top ranked for; couldn't immediately find it on several representative phrases. Whatever -- Google performance, while valuable, is not the ultimate benchmark of traffic or what it does on a site. For example:



MBD Marketleap search engine saturation 172 indexed entries
ybw Marketleap search engine saturation 24,063 search engine entries



MBD Marketleap link popularity 62 links
ybw Marketleap link popularity 42,930 links



MBD boats listed (tonight) 71
ybw boats listed 554 (private) plus 4276 (brokerage UK) or 15,678 (Europe)



To be fair I think MBD is tilting its hat more in the direction of brokers. Also, for as long as it remains low volume I also accept that any boats there will be more easily found.

MBD also says it is "more effective than a magazine ad on its own"

Well, the 554 ads currently listed on our site tonight also have a magazine ad as a part of that package, which means it is also being seen by somewhere between 15,000-55,000 direct buyers depending which title it is placed in (and more people beyond) as well as potentially being exposed to the 160,000 monthly unique users of these sites.

Sorry, all very big brotherish and defensive sounding. I understand the appeal of MBD's site building options and am interested to read the way some of you are using them but you wouldn't expect me to accept a notional Google ranking as evidence that MBD is more powerful as a marketing proposition compared to ybw, now would you?

All posted in good humour...







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[BrendanS]

Re: Googley numbers

Far more representative Google would be a search like 'boats for sale' YBW are in the top few, and appear twice. MBD don't appear for many, many many pages.

<hr width=100% size=1>Utinam logica falsa tuam philisophiam totam suffodiant

 

[Tim_Bennett]

A Buyers Perspective

I have just bought a 41 footer through a broker in the Hamble area after years of searching for the 'right' boat. I must have travelled thousands of miles in the search which nearly always ended in disappointment as private ads (website and magazine) invariably portrayed their yachts as something they clearly were not at prices that were not realistic in the current market. The big advantage was that I could compare many yachts for sale all within a few miles of each other and make reviewings without having to fit in with the sellers schedules. A bit like a boat show really - many products on view with no access problems. As for the broker, his advice and cooperation was commendable - although acting on behalf of the seller, of course, he managed to give the impression that he was my agent as well. As a go between, it made it easy to negotiate the deal in a completely professional and amicable manner without the uneasiness of the 2 parties having to 'confront' each other in person. I hope the seller also shares these thoughts. In summary, I think there will always be a place for a pro-active broker with good interpersonal skills and knows his product well. Finally, a boat, like anything else is only worth what you can get for it in the existing market and conditions.

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[Chris_Robb]

Re: A Buyers Perspective

Tim - I agree whole heartedly with your comments about Good Brokers. However my first contact with one was decidely dodgey as he was clearly not acting in my interests but trying to demoralise me so that his mate would get a good price. That kind of dishonest behavoir sours the reputation of all unfortunately.

I was lucky that I had someone who had been looking for one for a long time. Perhaps I could have got more, but it may have stuck for months - and I don't think I could have abided showing a stream of people over for months on end - so I would eventually have gone back to a broker - so why not be realistic in the first place.

Since signing the contract - the new owner has been very open about all the other boats he has seen especially the other Victories. The main reason others have sat unsold for a year are iether - very poor presentation - with an inflated view of price, or well presented but with major replacements all due at the same time. Sails engine rigging - a total cost of 30K probably. So a boat that has been kept upto date will be far more attractive. Unfortunatley the Ads dont tell anyone this!


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[Chris_Robb]

Re: Already tried

Thats precisley how I saw it and used it - however it high level of exposure in google was surprising!



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[Chris_Robb]

Just below - £1K off. Could have held out - but just increases the worry! He's happy - so am I - well its just sort of hit me - what the hell am I going to do with myself!

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[Chris_Robb]

Re: Googley numbers

Personally - I would never have thought of typing "Victory 40" into google and expecting a usefull search. In this case though it was the method the successful buyer first used to find the boat! So perhaps this was a freak accident. It was also in YM and Boats for sale - so no doubt it would have been found anyway.

I used MBD purpely as a place to host the boats details and this it does brilliantly. I did not expect to get any contacts from its coverage per se. Indeed - no calls came from this source as a starting point. In analysing the calls I had ( and they are still coming in - ) all the arly ones were from search engines - mainley YBW - and the rest 50% which came in the last 2 weeks were from the advert in YM. So all parties played the part they were designed to do.

Thanks YM for your part - oh by the way - do I get any money back on the April and May addition!!!!!!!

Chris

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[Chris_Robb]

Re: update

Neighbour knows!
Initially the buyer was not looking specifically for a VIctory - As to price - could I have got more. Well the highest price that I know a Victory got (actually a trinlella version) was £67,000, and this took a year to get. And he had to pay 8% commission. I probably could have got more - but I franky didn't want to have a 9 months session - which would have cost 200 a month alone in storage. - so I think with hindsight that I set the price right.

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