Boat rage at Whitehaven

RivalRedwing said:
Which is why in many cases (at least in the UK) the lock keeper calls the shots and running order....
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listening to the VHF on the way in or deferring to the lock keeper just might prevent, say, a 60' steel trawler from coming in after the first come first served 25' AWB and rafting on it with fenders accidentally left at completely the wrong height (not entirely unknown in our marina. There is also the p***k in the little gaffer with a bowsprit which speaks volumes about his distorted self-image, who refuses to use radio at all, always jumps the queue however long it is, and when thwarted finds the transoms of other boats a convenient alternative to reverse gear).
 
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Cardo said:
I've not dealt with locks much, but surely this should be a first come first served system? Why should you have to wait for someone behind you just because they got on their radio 3 miles out?
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generally speaking, the lock operator will try to get as many boats through as possible on each cycle and working "first come, first served" can make very poor use of available space. You radio in, then wait for instructions - I have spent a long time circling outside our lock, waiting for another boat to arrive and go in before me when it allows the staff to pack us in more tightly.
 
Cardo said:
I've not dealt with locks much, but surely this should be a first come first served system? Why should you have to wait for someone behind you just because they got on their radio 3 miles out?
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It has to be a free for all or completely regulated, both can work but a semi regulated system can be bad news. Years ago at Liverpool I was called in, I turned 270 to approach the lock only to be speared by a old prawning boat's bowsprit at she closed at high speed.
 
Thanks

Many thanks for all the input on this one guys.

It is my wish to extend the olive branch, but not sure if I will stretch to a bottle of wine!
SHMBO would not be impressed.

I just wanted to canvas opinion and see if I had missed something before going further. As with all disputes there are two points of view, it is worth walking a mile in someone else shoes sometimes, I guess.

There is no point turning this into a witch hunt, we all make mistakes, but perhaps we should give everyone the benefit of the doubt, and remember that we do this for fun.

I for one was completely taken aback by this sort of OTT behaviour.

I have always thought it best to be friendly and help everyone out a much as possible because one day you may need some help.
 
First come first served?

Just to touch on this theme.

The lock keepers instructions to us were;

“come in with the other vessel”

There was no instruction to enter after, which leaves matters open to interpretation really.
 
Rosemarine said:
Just to touch on this theme.

The lock keepers instructions to us were;

“come in with the other vessel”

There was no instruction to enter after, which leaves matters open to interpretation really.
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Hmmm, unless the gates are far wider than ours, that is just plain stupid!
 
Rosemarine said:
Just to touch on this theme.

The lock keepers instructions to us were;

“come in with the other vessel”

There was no instruction to enter after, which leaves matters open to interpretation really.
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As I said, the worst way of doing things, either the lock keeper should be in absolute control or the boats and skippers sort themselves out.
 
It is a few years ago, but my experience of entering Whitehaven was a good one! I was visiting I called on the radio to request entrance and a berth, I was told to fender the port side and come alongside the lock, a bucket was lowered down to me with a key and a piece of paper showing my berth, the gate opened and in we went, right in front of a flashing viewing tower thing.
It went well, very helpfull lock keepers.
 
RichardS said:
The OP stated "on rounding the breakwater we found the lock gate just opening, and no vessels waiting" so I'm not clear why you are proposing a course of action as a remedy to a situation that did not arise. :confused:

Richard
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Yes but then again the lock keep said come in with the other vessel.
I still stand by offer of the olive branch in the form of a bottle of plonk.
That in my opinion will temper this fellows tantrums I feel.
 
robertj said:
Yes but then again the lock keep said come in with the other vessel.
I still stand by offer of the olive branch in the form of a bottle of plonk.
That in my opinion will temper this fellows tantrums I feel.
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You seem mighty generous with your vino, sir.

Please tell me where you berth. I'll drop by your way and invent some feeble excuse to get all wound up and have a rant at you.

As a consequence, will you bring me a bottle to calm me down? :)
 
Rosemarine said:
On returning from the Isle of Man, on Sunday. We prepared the boat to enter the sea lock and called the lock keeper to lock into the marina when just off the South breakwater. On rounding the breakwater we found the lock gate just opening, and no vessels waiting. We entered the lock and made fast starboard side too. A few moments later a yacht came steaming in towards the lock with much shouting and the skipper with a full on rage, saying that he was first and wanted starboard side too. He then claimed that I had messed up everyone else while he reverses out with other boats astern of him and tries sort himself out!!

While he let forth with his opinion in the lock, I was gobsmaked and speechless and considered a response form me was unlikely to settle his rage. After some thought about the matter later, I am at a loss as to why someone should behave in such an un-seaman like manner and get themselves worked up to such an extent.

We had heard him call the lock just before us, but he made no request for berthing preference. We had no way of identifying him and assumed he was in front of us waiting in the outer harbour and ready to proceed.


Should we have waited for him to get himself sorted before entering the lock?
We called the lock keeper when we were ready and within a short distance of the lock.

You cannot wait about for people who call from some distance out can you.?


What does the panel think?
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At Whitehaven the lock is controlled by the lock keeper, if you werent aware of the others coming in not surprised you were shouted at. Are you one of those people in the Marina who live miles away and go sailing once a year, using only the genoa and motoring above force 1?
 
At our local lock, if boats cannot be seen by the lock keeper approaching the channel marker posts, they are usually asked to call in again when closer. Some people still radio in when a mile or two away!

Yes, if it is busy the lock keeper will always maintain a list and at his discretion will allocate places to maximise the lock capacity and reduce the number of cycles.

Rumour has it that a few years ago a visiting german boat was reprimanded for not joining the queue as his towel was not visible on the lock gates!
 
I have been in the the same situation as the OP at Crinan. I rushed in past a smaller yacht, who was on the approach to the lock gate, not that close, but there was not doubt that was where they were going: crew on deck, fenders out, lines getting readied. My crew went up the ladders and secured the lines just as the smaller yacht came in. I go an earful from the female helms woman and accused of being arrogant because of my larger yacht and big crew.

I took stock of the situation very quickly and apologised to her, agreeing more or less with her points. She shut up and got on with her business, maybe she wasn't expecting an apology . However, I did whoosh past, I did probably rock her boat with the wash and maybe I did take the spot she was planning on going into. I could have have slowed down and pottered in behind her, it would not have been such a big inconvenience.

That was many years ago and I have now grown a bit wiser and more patient, being a young buck back then. There really is no need to rush in these situations. Perhaps in Europe.
 
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We upset the Junior RN at Hull recently. Having been out for the day on our return HMS Explorer was on the river heading away from the marina. He called up and asked for a guage reading which the marina supplied. No further contact so we called up requesting the pen in, the marina replied he would get the lock ready for us. HMS then turned about and came charging down theriver towards us with a massive wash in tow. When just passed us the stopped dead. I was now faced with having to turn away from the marina entrance to face this wake - fortunately I got the green light just in time before the wash came. We penned in and round to our berth. The Mrs had ahad a fall while were out and we were still making fast when RN passed our berth at quite a speed - I asked him to slow down and got a sneering look in return. This prompted me to lodge a complaint with the lockmaster (we have had speed issues before with them). The skipper of the RN boat went to the office the next day to prove he was not speeding but doing the limit - bad seamanship passing a vessel that was still mooring close by at speed. It turned out he was miffed as he thought we were getting preferential treatment as we used our first names when locking in (even though I had only known the new lockkeeper a week!) and he also missed his train home!
 
We are based in Whitehaven.

The lock can be a bit of a challenge and was especially for me as a newbie day skipper. The tidal range is normally about 8m so there is a lot of water moving about. The biggest problem can be the large audience looking down on any nice sunny weekend afternoon waiting for yachties to make a fool of themselves trying to tie up - I enjoyed it myself for years before buying a boat.

On the whole though I cannot speak too highly of the lock keepers and the marina staff - they are nothing but helpful.

My advice would be to listen on 12 as you approach and call up when you are about a mile from the lock, then maintain a listen on 12 as you approach.

In my experience Cumbrian folk are very friendly.
 
For what it is worth, here are the rules given on Whitehaven Marina's web site:

The six simple rules for safe use of the Lock

• Monitor VHF Channel 12 at all times during arrival and departure
• Enter and leave the lock at slow speed
• Observe and act appropriately to the traffic light signals
• Ensure your vessel is secured to the cleats provided and you use a spring line
• Listen carefully to the instructions given to you by the duty Lock Keeper
• Only enter or depart the lock when the gates have fully opened
 
Are you one of those people in the Marina who live miles away and go sailing once a year, using only the genoa and motoring above force 1?
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Are you one of those people in the marina who live locally and can sail whenever and think that this makes them a superior being and gives them the right to sneer at the people who dont have the same ooportunities as them but who still pay the full price for a berth and as a consequence heavily subsidise your own?
 
Dave_Seager said:
For what it is worth, here are the rules given on Whitehaven Marina's web site:

The six simple rules for safe use of the Lock

• Monitor VHF Channel 12 at all times during arrival and departure
• Enter and leave the lock at slow speed
• Observe and act appropriately to the traffic light signals
• Ensure your vessel is secured to the cleats provided and you use a spring line
• Listen carefully to the instructions given to you by the duty Lock Keeper
• Only enter or depart the lock when the gates have fully opened
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I did not break any of these rules.

The lock keepers are great, I have no quarrel with them, and I have been instructed previously to let another large commercial vessel enter first. But on this occasion I don’t believe there were any special circumstances and we were effectively operating on first come first served basis.

I still think that if you arrive at the lock first without overtaking, increasing speed, taking short cuts etc…. and have permission to enter the lock then it’s OK to proceed. If the other vessel is close by and can be recognised, obviously it would be good manners to let them go first.

But you cannot hang around for another vessel, it they are not there.
 
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