Boat missing VAT receipt

Thanks chaps...many interesting points raised.

Was basing my question on taking a boat to France and being able to have all the required docs if/when they were needed.

Thanks again
 
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If a boat is £100k, and 4 people are looking at it

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I think those days are long gone now /forums/images/graemlins/frown.gif
 
ha, yea.. but I m just saying that not everyone acts the same.
Two boats I ve sold where the buyers havent even seen the boat, and paid me in full up front. All above board. Nice peple to do business with, and you have to trust each other, but a long cry from much of the stuff you hear!
 
Despite all the finer points of "argument" you have the message not to worry. Thousands of people go to France and don't have or are never asked for a VAT receipt. Just make sure that you have your SSR, Bill of Sale, Insurance and (without wishing to raise another long thread) make sure your flares if you have them are in date. Last one because there is some uncertainty about how the French authorities are viewing this.

Enjoy
 
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Just make sure that you have your SSR, Bill of Sale, Insurance and (without wishing to raise another long thread) make sure your flares if you have them are in date.


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I'd add to this a copy of "Bloc Marine" which most French marinas and Chandlers will have for about £25. I'm led to believe that it's a requirement to have this on board but that aside it's an incredibly useful book with up to date info on marinas, safety stuff etc.....and in English as well as French.
 
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Thats one reason as to why it's so important to establish the chain of ownership of a boat and it's history

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Good god man, that is a near impossible task, I know that at least one previous owner has passed this mortal coil, another, sold the boat in a fit of pique when a boatyard re-named her Gaytime II as a jape at his preferences! Of the previous eight owners I reckon 2 could be contacted.

In any event, VAT did not exist when my boat was built, I've never been quite sure where this leaves me.
 
Aren't boats built before 1985 treated as VAT paid anyway so you've got nothing to worry about?
 
Just to confirm what I was saying about finance houses needing to see documentary proof of VAT status see HERE
 
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# All private yachts owned or used by EU residents must be VAT paid if they are used in EU territorial waters

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That imply's that as a non EU resident I can buy a boat from a VAT registered vendor without paying VAT in the EU with no restriction of usage.

That is not true I would have to pay VAT.

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Non EU residents may own and use a private yacht VAT free on a temporary import basis (TI) for up to 18 months.

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That imply's that an EU resident cannot buy a boat in the EU which he intends to export would have to pay VAT.

This is also not true.

A persons residency status has no impact on is VAT is payable. It is where the item is used.

VAT and Import export od goods is my business.

On a self built boat as I am doing I do not have a single VAT invoice I have hundreds of VAT and non VAT invoices for all the bits on the boat.

What is indicated in the web site you refer to is too simplistic and my comment is . These people may know marine mortgages but do not know all the rules regarding VAT as applied to any commodity including boats.
 
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Aren't boats built before 1985 treated as VAT paid anyway so you've got nothing to worry about?

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I've know idea! Is that recored anywhere?
 
Rogershaw, as you can see from my previous posts, I posted this link only as a confirmation that finance co's asked for proof of VAT status when assessing boats for mortgages. Yes, I'm sure that the whole VAT issue is very complicated but, to be honest, I can't understand how you can make your inferences from the statements on the website

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That imply's that as a non EU resident I can buy a boat from a VAT registered vendor without paying VAT in the EU with no restriction of usage.

That is not true I would have to pay VAT

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Don't know where you got that from. My last boat was bought in Spain from an American non EU resident and it was ex VAT. The Channel Islands are outside the EU for VAT purposes yet ex VAT CI boats are allowed to visit EU waters. Also, of course, many boats in the EU are owned by non EU offshore companies and are purchased ex VAT (or VAT reclaimed)

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That imply's that an EU resident cannot buy a boat in the EU which he intends to export would have to pay VAT

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I don't see how you can imply that from the website and it's not true. Obviously, an EU resident can buy a boat ex VAT for export or reclaim VAT on a new boat for export. I don't think an EU resident can reclaim VAT on a secondhand boat on which VAT has already been paid though
 
The belief that a boat is of lower value without a VAT receipt is just that - a belief and therefore only of relevance to one holding the same belief. Interesting that on all these threads you seem to be the only one that holds this belief, at least strongly enough to make it an issue. I would suggest that it would be very difficult to find any evidence in fact to support your belief.

With regard to finance companies and the value of the boat, in normal times they are likely to take the contract price as the value, but of course there may be situations where they might seek an independent valuation, where, again not sure the lack of a VAT receipt would be an issue.

Thanks for the reminder on cross border VAT, however I was referring to sales to individuals, ie when the product is placed on the market.

Anyway, we now have a common enemy - the compulsory register man! Glad we all gave him a warm welcome!
 
All that is is just an edited incomplete extract from the RYA/HMRC material on the subject, freely available on the RYA site. As has been debated endlessly here there does not seem to be any backing in law for the position taken in respect of "proof", so a website reproducing existing material does not have any meaning.
 
The point I was trying to make is that residency has no bearing on if VAT is paid or not so the inclusion of the comments about residency in the web site is at best confusing for the non informed and is in fact completely wrong.

My take on the requirement for proof of VAT being paid at some time in the past is that

1) not my resposibility unless I was the importer.

2) If the authorities think a crime (tax evasion) has been committed it is up to them to prove it not for me to prove I have not committed a crime.

3) If I was in the position of being accused by the tax man of not complying with the law (and I have) I would ask to reference to the law (and I have done this) and request the tax man to take action to which I would defend.

As to detaining of my craft I would require to see the court order and to be allowed to defend the court action.

Having had dealings the the tax authorities over a number of years most is just IMHO saber rattling (to get extra revenue) of if challenged will give up and go else where.

To do this you need to know your rights and have some idea of the law which IMHO most people don't know and as a result the authorities try it on.

I refer to the Dutch red diesel incident reported on this fora and in the press in general.
 
You're determined to fudge the issue aren't you? Are you a politician in real life? All I have stated is that finance co's ask for proof of VAT status documentation and, for that reason alone, it might be worth having the VAT invoice. I mean that seems simple enough and I can't see that anyone could disagree or are you going to continue to argue?
 
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The point I was trying to make is that residency has no bearing on if VAT is paid or not so the inclusion of the comments about residency in the web site is at best confusing for the non informed and is in fact completely wrong

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That's not correct as I've just pointed out that Channel Islands residents can buy boats ex VAT and use them inside the EU and, at the risk of repeating myself, my last boat was bought in Spain ex VAT from a non EU resident so residency does have a bearing
 
No, I am not arguing, just pointing out that the source you quote is merely a website that is repeating what is already said elsewhere by "official" sources, and then only partially. I don't see how that changes anything.

I have not said that finance houses don't act in the way that they do - but I don't know whether they all do and what their reasons are, other than buying into the myth.

No I am not a politician, I am just more persuaded by facts supported by evidence than other peoples' beliefs, no matter how sincerely held.

And, yes if you want to obtain a mortgage then you have to comply with the lender's requirements, but again that does not provide evidence that it is a legal requirement to possess a VAT receipt for a boat.

So, until there are factual cases of boats being impounded, devalued, owners pursued etc etc this must all remain a myth.
 
Jeez, I've already said that finance co's asking for VAT proof has more to do with assessing the value of the boat. I don't remember saying that they asked for VAT proof because they believe it is a legal requirement. I am not arguing and never have argued that proof of VAT status is legally required (see my very first post on this thread), just that, for practical reasons, it's worth having and those practical reasons have a bearing on the value of the boat
I've lost the will to live on this subject so I guess you'll be having the last word
 
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my last boat was bought in Spain ex VAT from a non EU resident so residency does have a bearing

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Two things here.

1) If the person you purchased your boat in Spain is a private deal i.e. from a person not registered for VAT you would not pay VAT on that deal and as the person was non EU resident it is probable he was not VAT registered.

If he purchased the boat in the EU from a VAT registered person then the he would have paid VAT to his supplier. If he imported it from outside the EU he would have paid VAT on the import. If non of these happened keep mum.

In my business I put systems together that have to calculate VAT in various countries on both imported and local sales and I have to know the VAT act in those countries so my systems comply with the local laws. In fact there are 2 kinds of tax on transactions VAT (Value added tax) and GST (General sales tax) OZ and the US have GST and EU and Africa and others have VAT

As I said in a previous thread and confirmed by others there is no such document as a proof of payment of VAT. Not even the original invoice that shows VAT is proof as the VAT can be claimed back for various reasons.

Pls get the VAT act and read it I have. There can also be some local arrangements where VAT is not collected at the initial sale to like a charter company which is more a GST arrangement than VAT but can cause problems down the line as they are local and not the norm and take loads of time to sort out at a later date when the tax people involved are now not around.

Regarding the CI I would like to know how many people who purchased their boat VAT free in the CI keep it permanently in the EU. If it visits for less than 18 months it is classified as a temporary import. If it stays longer VAT will become due as happened on a friends boat
 
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