Boat Maintenance

[rubberduck]

Why is it it takes so long to do anything. Perhaps a change of attitude is overdue. If I have a boat that cost a few quid that is unusable, then I want it dealt with pronto, as the season is short. All I seem to get is delays & sucking air through teeth. I don't care how hard it is, get it done & get it done quickly. Failure to do so will result in my boat, along with many others being sold abroad & you lot winging there is no work about. FFS grow up, the customer say jump, you ask how high!!!! That's what I do which is how I can afford the sodding thing. Rant over. Edit. Failure to comply with the above will result in my billing you for waiting time to contra against your ridiculous travelling expenses. WANT THE WORK OR NOT ?

 

[Resolution]

Couldn't agree more rubberduck.

You don't take your car to the garage for servicing,only to be told it will take 3 weeks; no,its done that day in a matter of hours. Why marine engineers deem any job as major,time consuming and costly is beyond me.
Think the marine industry needs a kick up the arse to conform to the motor industry. Rant over


Si

Probably because car servicing is spread evenly through twelve months, whilst a large part of boat servicing requests are crammed into April and May.

You would however win immediate engineer attention if you agreed to pay for him (or her?) at the £100 plus per hour that many leading car dealers charge.

 

[volvopaul]

You want to come and try working in this industry then you will see how difficult at times it cam be.

Your reference to a car cannot possibly be compared to the marine engineering scene.

You drive your car to the garage, they have all the parts at hand, car on a ramp, oil drained off, car supported from ground wheels off, new discs and pads etc, all done in 2 hours.

My job, often at the first hurdle parts can take weeks to arrive, the volume of sales and availability is nothing like the automotive industry, outdrives and engine repairs have to be removed and taken to suitable workshops to be stripped down, travel to marinas along with all the politics were getting these days with Marina controlling outside contractors, sometimes I can be an hour waiting to get signed in a paperwork rubber stamped.

Then try parking at Brighton or ocean village, especially on the south side at o v, loading your trolley and walking 20 mins to the boat, time all adds up, getting the picture now?

 

[MapisM]

getting the picture now?

Yup, I perfectly see what you mean, VP.
And I'm sure you're one of those (few) who puts his best efforts in getting the job done, properly and on time - against all odds.

Otoh, quite often it's just a matter of attitude.
I mean, of course in any industry there's the good, the bad and the ugly, and you can get a poor service even with basic car assistance.
But the share of bad and ugly which can be found in the boating industry is hard to beat, imho.

Maybe it's just because in the good old days many operators got used to boaters which either accepted a poor service, or were not even aware of how poor that service actually was. I'm not sure about how many of these operators will last, though.

Incidentally, I just experienced first hand one of these cases with a supplier for which I tried to help rubberduck in sourcing a component... Btw, sorry to hear that you had other problems P, is that also related to the same equipment?

 

[rubberduck]

If I tell my customers I have terrible problems doing work for them, they would & do say get stuffed. Carry some stock, get organised re access etc. I have to do this to go air-side for a major airline customer / slightly more involved !!! Last week I was awake 24/7 for the whole week because that airline was dropped in it by a competitor. I fly out to their corporate head office next week to dot the I's & x the T's regarding taking the business. As I said FFS Grow up or don't complain when it gets a lot worse than it is now, which it will. IMHO.

 

[rubberduck]

Yup, I perfectly see what you mean, VP.
And I'm sure you're one of those (few) who puts his best efforts in getting the job done, properly and on time - against all odds.

Otoh, quite often it's just a matter of attitude.
I mean, of course in any industry there's the good, the bad and the ugly, and you can get a poor service even with basic car assistance.
But the share of bad and ugly which can be found in the boating industry is hard to beat, imho.

Maybe it's just because in the good old days many operators got used to boaters which either accepted a poor service, or were not even aware of how poor that service actually was. I'm not sure about how many of these operators will last, though.

Incidentally, I just experienced first hand one of these cases with a supplier for which I tried to help rubberduck in sourcing a component... Btw, sorry to hear that you had other problems P, is that also related to the same equipment?

That and an anode that should have been replaced last year

 

[starfire]

That & an anode for the generator, which I was told last year by the same company didn't have any, so I am now expecting the whole thing to fail sometime soon. I will however get it checked & take appropriate action if necessary. Twats !!!!, but in fairness, not all of them, but by a long way most.

Anodes easy to turn up from zinc stock, either reuse the plug the old one is in or get a new plug.

BTW. Why have a pop at VolvoPaul ?, he is one of the good guys.

I bet what work you do airside is on known equipment which you can carry spares for & probably charge a lot more than you would pay for work on your boat.

 

[rubberduck]

Anodes easy to turn up from zinc stock, either reuse the plug the old one is in or get a new plug.

BTW. Why have a pop at VolvoPaul ?, he is one of the good guys.

I bet what work you do airside is on known equipment which you can carry spares for & probably charge a lot more than you would pay for work on your boat.

Re the anode, I quite agree, but it wasn't done

Re Paul, I know he is well thought of but to sight problems with parts & access to marinas I can't understand. If you run a business, you overcome problems. I have never dealt with Paul so no problems in that direction.
Re Air-side access, parts are often scarce or a long way away, we get them there quick. AOG is one of the things we do very well.

 

[rbcoomer]

I have some sympathy with both sides of this debate.

There is no doubt in my mind that the marine environment for a boat bears little similarity to that of the average car - more hostile, less regular use and fewer quantities made all have impact on parts and servicing. From a marine engineers perspective, access must also be a factor - both to the boat and to the parts therein! Add to that the fact that 90% of your customers want their work doing in the same few weeks!

On the other hand: Being a 'newbie', I took outboard to be serviced locally a couple of years back when I first got the boat because a) I didn't feel I had the knowledge and b) it hadn't been used for a few years. I didn't want to risk the sea with family without knowing the engine was good. It was late June so probably past peak time for them, but the first two places I rang didn't even bother to return calls and the third (which did the service) missed two perished bushes (one sheared off and disappeared into the sea somewhere on first trip!) and the fact that the rectifier was open circuit! I also discovered the latter of course on maiden trip - when we had to get towed in... Last year I went elsewhere and a new throttle cable was 'advised' because it was stiff. They said they'd need to order and would ring when in stock - 4 phone calls and about 8 weeks later I was still waiting... At that point, I decided it was time to learn how to do it all myself.

Much like work on cars really - there seems to be a number of cowboy operators that make those who genuinely do good work very sought after!

 

[Warpa]

Most service parts for cars and boats are available 24/7, some car parts you need to wait for as you do for the marine parts. Thing i have found is that so called 'non serviceable' parts can be serviced. i wont touch the boat, but the older cars i have i work on. i don't need a new caliper for the brakes as it can be serviced.

This like for like change needs to be changed across the board.

 

[rubberduck]

I'm probably whinging unfairly, but it seems to me the whole marine industry has one speed, dead slow. Very few seem prepared to put themselves out & do a bit of overtime or go out of their way to get things sorted. I remember I had some major work done on my 1st boat, perfectly good job but overran by months. Not been back since, so lack of extra effort has cost them a good few bob over the last five years.

 

[Resolution]

I'm probably whinging unfairly, but it seems to me the whole marine industry has one speed, dead slow. Very few seem prepared to put themselves out & do a bit of overtime or go out of their way to get things sorted. I remember I had some major work done on my 1st boat, perfectly good job but overran by months. Not been back since, so lack of extra effort has cost them a good few bob over the last five years.

Rubberduck
You appear to run a successful business in a competitive field, so must have judgement as well as energy etc etc. So you will know that it is not fair to judge "the whole marine industry" by your one bad experience five years ago. Sure there are many inefficient players in the sector, but there are also many reliable, hard-working businesses that provide a good service to boat owners.
You are welcome to come over to Swanwick and put us to the test.

 

[Wavey]

I can sympathise with rubberduck. I bought my current boat in August and within a month had a list of 7 jobs that needed doing. We are now in May and so far only 2 jobs have been completed. Availability of spares is certainly an issue but why does it take some people months to actually get around to looking at the job. Why do I constantly need to chase people. It's so frustrating.

 

[DavidJ]

A month ago my wife says "Lets spend some cash getting the boat polished for our next visit mid May" (in Spain)
So far three reminders to my "man" and nothing has happened. Spain has 25% unemployment.
Certainly lethargy in the Spanish marine industry

 

[Greg2]

As has already been said, there is good and bad in every industry but the marine industry does seem to have more than its fair share of bad.

A combination of people thinking that simply owning a boat makes it legitimate to try to relieve me of extortionate amounts of cash for any kind of work and taking huge amounts of time to do so has been a major factor in making me learn how to do as much as I can myself.

The tipping point was watching a disinterested VP engineer leafing through a manual to see how to change the supercharger idler pulley on a KAD42 on our last boat and the subsequent eye watering bill made me think 'time to learn because I am sure I could do that and I would care'. Granted he got me out of a hole at the time because I didn't have the knowledge so I was grateful for that.

Don't get me wrong, I have also experienced some top people and volvopaul is probably an example (never done any work for me due to location but has been very helpful with advice etc) but I have also experienced some absolute idiots who clearly think that most customers can be taken for the same and should be grateful that they will find time to do the work for them.....eventually.

 

[rosssavage]

I've been a commercial aircraft engineer and now work as a marine one.

To attend (attend only, and say "what's the problem?") would cost you over £200 on an aircraft. To earn £200 on boats takes me eight hours. Out of that comes my indemnity and liability insurance. And transport costs. And a break for lunch which I don't get paid for. If its a service I will have spent at least an hour of my own time (unpaid..) beforehand sourcing parts. And possibly driving to collect them. For free. I have 80 litres of oil in stock, and that's all - do you know how many different impellers and filters there are out there for all Volvo petrol and diesel, all Mercruiser, Yanmah, Caterpillar, BMC etc engines? I can't keep that stock...that's what parts suppliers are for.

AOG - yeah, how much does that cost? Do you think I can phone Keyparts and ask them to fly me parts in to Windsor marina in 30 minutes?

If marine engineers earned aircraft money, there would be more of them, and you wouldn't have to wait so long for work to be done.

I have a customer whose boat I worked on about 2-3 weeks ago, on relaunch he has found another problem, and has asked me to pop over to have a look at it. Problem is, I'm so busy I can't do it for another three weeks. He is not unhappy about that (I hope..!) and I'm honest enough to give a realistic date. I won't say I'm going to be there when I can't, and so far (only been in business for six months) I've only had to reschedule one appointment. (ironically for this customer!!)

Granted, I am not a big south coast professional outfit, I am only me, but you pay accordingly. What else anywhere can you get fixed for £25ph these days?

To top up a B737 engine oil will cost you £200 call out + £200 labour + £50 for two quarts of Jet 2 oil = £450 to top up. How much does a full service cost on your boat engine?

 

[Wavey]

I don't have a problem paying decent money for a decent job. It's what I expect to do. That includes someone's travelling time if they're not exactly round the corner from me. And if someone's spent loads of time trying to source the bits I need I don't expect that to come free either.

I do however expect someone to turn up sometime. Turning up when arranged would be a good start. Phoning me when something has come up and they can't get to me would be good too.

Getting the bill right helps as well. I only have two engines so don't charge me for the parts for four as someone did recently. In fact, trying to get a bill out of some people is like pulling teeth. If the job's been done and we agree it's finished I would like to pay you please.

 

[geardownthreegreens]

You want to come and try working in this industry then you will see how difficult at times it cam be.



You drive your car to the garage, they have all the parts at hand, car on a ramp, oil drained off, car supported from ground wheels off, new discs and pads etc, all done in 2 hours.

My job, often at the first hurdle parts can take weeks to arrive, the volume of sales and availability is nothing like the automotive industry, outdrives and engine repairs have to be removed and taken to suitable workshops to be stripped down, travel to marinas along with all the politics were getting these days with Marina controlling outside contractors, sometimes I can be an hour waiting to get signed in a paperwork rubber stamped.

Then try parking at Brighton or ocean village, especially on the south side at o v, loading your trolley and walking 20 mins to the boat, time all adds up, getting the picture now?

Point taken Paul and apologies.Nothing meant towards you personally,obviously. Yes i'm aware your 1 of the good guys out there. Same with all industry i guess. Good and bad.