andyc
Well-Known Member
My boats been in for 2 seasons now.I was hoping to lift ,scrub ,re-annode and back in..Do you think it needs to come out for a period to dry out any interstitial moisture within the glassfibre?
Boat lift out to dry out?
- Thread starter andyc
- Start date
tinkicker0
Well-Known Member
Do you know what kind of resin its made with? That has a major bearing on things, or whether it has Gelshield under the antifoul?
I have a binliner, so it comes out onto the chocks every winter because I'm afraid it will dissolve.
I have a binliner, so it comes out onto the chocks every winter because I'm afraid it will dissolve.
Last edited:
andyc
Well-Known Member
Maxums best quality resin and what is gel-shield?
tinkicker0
Well-Known Member
http://marinestore.co.uk/PLYPA212-A2-5X.html
Polyester resin is supposed to be more prone to Osmosis than Vinyl ester resins.
Polyester resin is supposed to be more prone to Osmosis than Vinyl ester resins.
Gelmaster
Well-Known Member
good tip for you...
if possible, jet wash the minute it is lifted to standing, or even on the hoist if there isnt any rush!
Any grass and frogs will come off far easier whilst still wet!
Simply scrub clean and treat with new antifoul if necessary.
There will always be a certain moisture reading with any boat pulled out.
It wont make a significant difference if it is popped straight back into the water after its TLC.
If there is a moisture problem, It will show up with osmosis blisters.
If there are a few blisters, dont panic.
They can be easily treated by your local GRP repairer.
Major pox is a different ball game. Expensive problem, but usually pops up on older craft!
The exception was Beneteau......
The history books nearly saw the company go broke with warranty work on newly built craft.
Osmosis being the culprit due to poor lay up!
if possible, jet wash the minute it is lifted to standing, or even on the hoist if there isnt any rush!
Any grass and frogs will come off far easier whilst still wet!
Simply scrub clean and treat with new antifoul if necessary.
There will always be a certain moisture reading with any boat pulled out.
It wont make a significant difference if it is popped straight back into the water after its TLC.
If there is a moisture problem, It will show up with osmosis blisters.
If there are a few blisters, dont panic.
They can be easily treated by your local GRP repairer.
Major pox is a different ball game. Expensive problem, but usually pops up on older craft!
The exception was Beneteau......
The history books nearly saw the company go broke with warranty work on newly built craft.
Osmosis being the culprit due to poor lay up!
Gelmaster
Well-Known Member
Gelshield is an epoxy based resin which primarily replaces stripped back Gelcoat after osmosis treatment.
several coats are required followed by gelshield plus....
and OMG does it stink!!!
carlton
Well-Known Member
I have a binliner, so it comes out onto the chocks every winter because I'm afraid it will dissolve.
Think I got lucky. My Bayliner had gelshield from new - prob'ly their knee-jerk reaction to the problems they'd previously experienced, I s'pose.
Re. the OP - it's open to debate, but many surveyors recommend leaving out of the water for at least 4 weeks every years to minimise water absorption. That's what I tend to do, but it's your boat/decision...
Last edited:
andyc
Well-Known Member
I am tempted to not anti foul.We have a tiny bit of slime that wipes off by hand and thats it after 2 years.
I was thinking light jet wash, polish the props,anodes and back in then perhaps take it out for a few weeks when there is space.Boatyard are not keen to take up space ashore this winter and it is more protected from sub zero temps in water.
I was thinking light jet wash, polish the props,anodes and back in then perhaps take it out for a few weeks when there is space.Boatyard are not keen to take up space ashore this winter and it is more protected from sub zero temps in water.
Last edited:
carlton
Well-Known Member
No outdrives to service, then?
andyc
Well-Known Member
Shafts
hlb
RIP
Mines been in for the last 12 years. Dunno how you manage without antifouling though.
PCUK
Well-Known Member
A polyester hull is far less likely to develop Oomosis if it is dried out for six weeks or so every year.
PaulGooch
Well-Known Member
Sounds like a good plan to me. Depending on the fouling level where you are, i'd be thinking about antifouling though. My current boat is a 2003 and has never been out of the water for more than a week.
Each year, we lift, pressure wash and chock up on the hard for a week. Replace anodes, polish hull, light rub down with scotch brite pad and antifoul, general check over and service then back in the water at the end of the week.
CX54WEK
Well-Known Member
Same here. Ours is a 2003 and has an annual lift for a week. In that week (well the weekend really) we change the outdrive oil, change anodes, antifoul, polish the hull and superstructure and give her a general look over for any scuffs that need repairing. Then she is straight back in.
The longest she has been out of the water to our knowledge was the four weeks it took for the brokerage yard to sell her to us after taking her as a trade in. Her previous owners, who we know, never had her out for long either. On the last lift out in March, there were no signs of osmosis or other damage below the waterline and certainly nothing to suggest keeping her afloat was causing damage.
boatmaster
Well-Known Member
Sound advice
Gelmaster is absolutely right on that one, the sooner you wash, the easier the crud comes off, Let your boat stand for minimum 6 weeks if poss to dry out and reduce the moisture content, this will significantly reduce the evidence of osmotic blistering, if your boat already has the pox, you will see the blisters shrink as the boat dries, sometimes they almost disappear. i like to take mine out every winter because if the marina does freeze over, it can damage blisters at waterline level.
Gelmaster is absolutely right on that one, the sooner you wash, the easier the crud comes off, Let your boat stand for minimum 6 weeks if poss to dry out and reduce the moisture content, this will significantly reduce the evidence of osmotic blistering, if your boat already has the pox, you will see the blisters shrink as the boat dries, sometimes they almost disappear. i like to take mine out every winter because if the marina does freeze over, it can damage blisters at waterline level.
andyc
Well-Known Member
I am not sure either.We are on a river that flows past constantly and the water is quite clear, not muddy,so maybe the fouling doesnt get a chance.I do get like a small bit of limescale type build up at the water line and I have scrubed it off a couple of times.
Elessar
Well-Known Member
This thread gets the prize for the most nonsense talked since someone asked about anchoring on scuttlebutt.
Stage 2 osmosis will not show blistering, but it is NOT easily repaired. Breakdown within the laminate has started and it is not reversible. It is best ignored until stage 3 (ie blistering) inevitably develops and then go for a full blown repair.
They used propylene glycol a drying agent for their catalysts in a well intended to improve laminate quality. It unintentionally did a good job of proving the way osmosis happens in boats but "poor lay up" suggests carelessness which it probably was not.
don't quite get this - gelshield plus is a solvent free epoxy indeed used for osmosis repair, most people think of gelshield as gelshield 200 which is a solvented osmosis prevention system painted on top of gelcoat. Not sure what the epoxy based resin you refer to that you put the solvent free on top of is?
Now this may be true! But even if they recommend it it still wont help. They don't know everything you know!!
Yes - six weeks out of 52 - ie about 11% less likely. It won't be absorbing water whilst ashore ( a bonus) but it wont be drying either.......
The word "polyester" is superfluous or can be replaced with "GRP"
the blisters may shrink but the osmosis does not go away. This may be the most useful post here! You demonstrate how the blisters can be tolerated whist you enjoy your boat. But they won't heal - if you want them to go away it will take a significant repair I'm afraid.
________________
ARC. Antifoul Removal, Epoxy Coatings, CopperCoat
Noisekiller Marine. Automotive acoustic technology now available for your boat
Sail for Fun. Yacht and Motorboat charter
Stage 2 osmosis will not show blistering, but it is NOT easily repaired. Breakdown within the laminate has started and it is not reversible. It is best ignored until stage 3 (ie blistering) inevitably develops and then go for a full blown repair.
They used propylene glycol a drying agent for their catalysts in a well intended to improve laminate quality. It unintentionally did a good job of proving the way osmosis happens in boats but "poor lay up" suggests carelessness which it probably was not.
don't quite get this - gelshield plus is a solvent free epoxy indeed used for osmosis repair, most people think of gelshield as gelshield 200 which is a solvented osmosis prevention system painted on top of gelcoat. Not sure what the epoxy based resin you refer to that you put the solvent free on top of is?
Now this may be true! But even if they recommend it it still wont help. They don't know everything you know!!
Yes - six weeks out of 52 - ie about 11% less likely. It won't be absorbing water whilst ashore ( a bonus) but it wont be drying either.......
The word "polyester" is superfluous or can be replaced with "GRP"
the blisters may shrink but the osmosis does not go away. This may be the most useful post here! You demonstrate how the blisters can be tolerated whist you enjoy your boat. But they won't heal - if you want them to go away it will take a significant repair I'm afraid.
________________
ARC. Antifoul Removal, Epoxy Coatings, CopperCoat
Noisekiller Marine. Automotive acoustic technology now available for your boat
Sail for Fun. Yacht and Motorboat charter
carlton
Well-Known Member
I know they don't know everything. That's why I said...
If it's duff info, why do most surveyors recommend lifting out and drying the hull? What do they have to gain (- or not lose-) by suggesting that?
(P.S. - Not looking for an argument here - just wondered what a surveyor would gain by suggesting an annual lift-out if it wasn't good for the boat).
Elessar
Well-Known Member
I know they don't know everything. That's why I said...
If it's duff info, why do most surveyors recommend lifting out and drying the hull? What do they have to gain (- or not lose-) by suggesting that?
(P.S. - Not looking for an argument here - just wondered what a surveyor would gain by suggesting an annual lift-out if it wasn't good for the boat).
Fair point. I think it's just old fashioned thinking. If your boat is protected by an epoxy, it will make no material difference IMHO, and you may get to use the boat. And you may save yourself the cost of a liftout if you can dry out to do legs and anodes.
If not protected by epoxy it is 4 weeks less water absorption, but the water, when it passes into the hull, becomes heavier by dissolving parts of the hull lay up and doesn't really come back out again. So you get 4 weeks respite from getting wet but you don't get 4 weeks drier.
It's amazing i have learned loads and loads from surveyors, many of whom really have an encyclopaedic knowledge of boats. Some of them say stuff which I know to be nonsense though, but the latter is in the minority and I often ring a surveyor if I find something untoward on a boat. I have also now learned to engage a surveyor before staring a repair and let him spec it, it saves doing the job twice. So I don't want to come across as anti surveyor because I definitely am not.....
I suppose I'm now beginning to question if most surveyors really do recommend it these days. I will ask the ones I meet as I go along
Any reading this want to stick their head above the parapet? Tell me I'm talking nonsense if you think I am!
________________
ARC. Antifoul Removal, Epoxy Coatings, CopperCoat
Noisekiller Marine. Automotive acoustic technology now available for your boat
Sail for Fun. Yacht and Motorboat charter
Bilgediver
Well-Known Member
Unfortunately even surveyors sometimes spread Old Wives tales. Many folk think of osmosis as simply water soaking into the hull and doing some dastardly deed and that it can be stopped by drying out that water. Unfortunately it is a little more complicated which is why as our friend from SHamrock Quay has said, things don t stop if you pop the boat out for a week or two and then pop it back in. A reaction will continue within the gel or layup out of sight and out of mind especially if the mechanical forces it generates havn't caused the dimples to appear.
If no dimples then do not get paranoid just go sailing . I f dimples then just stop and think and discuss further here giving full information and you might be saved from destroying the integral strength of your boat by over enthusiastic shaving of the layup. Sometimes the problem is mainly in the gel and not the layup so make sure before you goose a good hull with the Black and Decker.
