Boat in build pics (Squadron 78)

[jfm]

jfm, Excuse my ignorance,.... I assumed stabilisers only worked when you were moving.... they also work when stationary??.... Or am I really showing my ignorance, do you have 2 types of stabilisers, fin type for travelling motion and a gyro or the like for at anchor......although from layup I can't see any space has been left for a gyro... (sorry, just struggling to keep up with this superyacht tech)..

...and build will take to December... is that for the finished article??!! that sounds incredible if it is...

As regards build time it is roughly a 9 month boat. They started beginning of May (it will be an E011 HIN) and scheduled finish is Dec 22, after which it has to go to Ipswich for commissioning and trials, so will be finished late January 2011 say. Remember that lots of processes happen in parallel. Currently, while all the GRP moulding is being done, another part of Fairline is making loads of furniture subassemblies.

Yup, the stabs work at anchor as well. The stabs computer has a GPS feed to tell it SOG, and as the boat goes faster the stabilisers obviously swing around less to get the same stabilising effect. At 30kts, the angluar movement of the tabs will be slight, but at zero speed, ie at anchor, they flap about quite substantially, to reduce rolling etc. The stab blades are amidships, and approx 1 metre square. They are pivoted at the front edge

The stabs are each operated by two hydraulic cylinders. The hydraulic pack is both electric and engine PTO (priority to the PTO, obviously). At anchor the pack is run by a generator, and has a 7.5Kw electric motor (sheesh). This pack also powers the (proportional) bow and stern thrusters, and the anchor winch

The stabs are made by Sleipner. Details at www.side-power.com. At top of the page you can see the new proportional thruster control with LCD display. At bottom of page there is a link to the stabs.

Below is the general arrangement drawing of my boat, showing the stabs. To scale them, note that the radar scanner is 4 foot

 

[jfm]

Blimey, extra fuel tanks, twin genny's, stabilisers ... Is the guy in the last photo predicting the vessels's freeboard Seriously, what a monster! Do they really do these things as standard with no internal stairs? I bet the crew stay fit.

Yup. Everyone is the same though. The sunseeker 70-80-88, the Princess 78, etc, all have no internal stairs. It does make for more internal saloon/dining space, and I guess that's why they do it. Ferretti retain internal stairs on their comparable boat which is the 740, but nice though that boat is in many respects it has a lousy flybridge design and it makes more sense to customise a Fairline staircase than try to customise a Ferretti 740 flybridge

 

[PaulGooch]

<snip> after which it has to go to Ipswich for commissioning and trials, so will be finished late January 2011 say. <snip>

Our boat is just "up the road" at Shotley. Perhaps we'll get to see her when she's doing her trials. I'll keep an eye on this thread and look out for her when she's there.

 

[jfm]

So you sucumbed then jfm, presume current boat is now sold? Can you get the new owner to report back on the ultrasonic results. Think in your last report you weren't overly impressed?
What are you going to do to get your boaty fixes for the next year?

Yup, I fell for the old boat-buying thing again . My old Sq58 is sold; buyer has already paid and I'm meeting them tomorrow to hand over keys and BoS

I'll try to get pics of u/sonic af performance. The boat will stay local to me - it will be berthed in Beaulieu, a couple of ports along the coast from Antibes. I lifted the boat a couple of weeks ago and was very unipressed with u/sonic performance - I'll post some pics soon but meantime my recommendation to anyone thinking of spending £2000 on ultrasonicantifouling.com is DON'T!

I don't need many boat fixes this year. It's awkward running the boat with the busted leg, and I am spending plenty of time speccing etc the new one!

 

[coliholic]

Stunning jfm, really impressive. So are you going to be visiting Oundle on a weekly basis? Any chance of a tour?

BTW especially like the last pic with the chap with his hands what, a foot apart? Bet he's saying, "Mr jfm, is you send us a wad of £50's this thick, we'll build whatever you want".

 

[benjenbav]

The hull's so huge and with the "basic" fit out and window blanks as it sits in the mould, it somehow reminded me of one of those Roman galley ships, "triremes" (or summat-like).

Anyway, this is all just a build up to my trireme joke:

Slavedriver to oarsman: "OK lads, good news - you've got the morning off. Bad news - the skipper wants to go waterskiing this afternoon."




I'll get my coat. It's just next to the door.

 

[PowerYachtBlog]

Great stuff! Keep them coming please....

 

[mjf]

Wow! this is a very interesting thread.

I too cannot get to grips with the size - its bloody big innit?



jfm - pls keep this updated as an informed narrative will enhanse the pix and I'm sure we will learn loads about this type of construction.

Thanks

 

[MapisM]

The stabs computer has a GPS feed to tell it SOG, and as the boat goes faster the stabilisers obviously swing around less to get the same stabilising effect.

Why SOG and not SOW? Possibly because it would take a rather sophisticated transducer (i.e. doppler) to get a reliable SOW?
But that aside, I must have lost the plot a bit on modern stabs, because I don't see the logical need for taking speed into account.
I mean, the equipment obviously has a gyro head as a main control unit, because it must constantly sense the boat position.
The fins are flapped at a higher/lower angle and at a higher/lower speed depending on the need for more/less correction sensed by the gyro head, depending on the boat reactions.
How much of these reactions are due to the sea conditions or to the boat speed, it shouldn't matter a lot...

 

[jfm]

Why SOG and not SOW? Possibly because it would take a rather sophisticated transducer (i.e. doppler) to get a reliable SOW?
But that aside, I must have lost the plot a bit on modern stabs, because I don't see the logical need for taking speed into account.
I mean, the equipment obviously has a gyro head as a main control unit, because it must constantly sense the boat position.
The fins are flapped at a higher/lower angle and at a higher/lower speed depending on the need for more/less correction sensed by the gyro head, depending on the boat reactions.
How much of these reactions are due to the sea conditions or to the boat speed, it shouldn't matter a lot...

Yup, for Med use SOG is just more reliable; STW transducers generally get affected by crud. The system will work perfectly well with STW if you want to run it that way and maintain the transducer

The software these days is more advanced than you describe, because of much greater computing power in recent years. They could do it as you describe, but it's much better if the machine knows the boat's speed so it can predict the amount of fin movement needed to correct the unfavourable acceleration sensed by the gyros. If done your way, the system would correct that acceleration using a "basic" level of fin movement which would not take account of boat speed, then constantly ask the gyros if that was the right amount of fin movement or not, and adjust as necessary, then adjust again, etc. Boat speed has a huge affect on how much "counter roll" the fins produce for each degree of fin rotation, so it makes good sense to take that into account in the computing

IIRC on the Sliepner system there are 12 gyros, and a lot of computing power to process all the data

Of course, it's patently obvious that a fin stabiliser CAN work. But what makes it work well rather than work badly is moving the fin exactly the right amount/speed at exactly the right time. That comes down to software and computing power, on which points the Sliepner system (I believe) scores very highly, and one aspect of that is to take account of boat speed when deciding how much to move the fins to negate an unfavourable acceleration. Intuitively that makes good sense I reckon

 

[wakeup]

Yup, for Med use SOG is just more reliable; STW transducers generally get affected by crud. The system will work perfectly well with STW if you want to run it that way and maintain the transducer

The software these days is more advanced than you describe, because of much greater computing power in recent years. They could do it as you describe, but it's much better if the machine knows the boat's speed so it can predict the amount of fin movement needed to correct the unfavourable acceleration sensed by the gyros. If done your way, the system would correct that acceleration using a "basic" level of fin movement which would not take account of boat speed, then constantly ask the gyros if that was the right amount of fin movement or not, and adjust as necessary, then adjust again, etc. Boat speed has a huge affect on how much "counter roll" the fins produce for each degree of fin rotation, so it makes good sense to take that into account in the computing

IIRC on the Sliepner system there are 12 gyros, and a lot of computing power to process all the data

Of course, it's patently obvious that a fin stabiliser CAN work. But what makes it work well rather than work badly is moving the fin exactly the right amount/speed at exactly the right time. That comes down to software and computing power, on which points the Sliepner system (I believe) scores very highly, and one aspect of that is to take account of boat speed when deciding how much to move the fins to negate an unfavourable acceleration. Intuitively that makes good sense I reckon

In my experience of working with technology companies, sometimes they will often do something in a different way to a competitor to circumvent the competitors patents and or to protect and create a niche around their own product with a patented approach to a problem. Perhaps in this case Sleipner are circumventing someone else's patent by using the SOG as part of their proprietary solution and as JFM says why not move the fin proportionally to the boat speed rather than wait for more instruction form the gyro. i would imagine that the stab then requires less effort or I should say just the right amount of effort to put the boat in the right attitude. This will probably save the stabs systems on wear and tear over time.

 

[MapisM]

IIRC on the Sliepner system there are 12 gyros, and a lot of computing power to process all the data

Wow. Yup, I guess that any kind of 2010 system involving data processing is much more powerful than an equivalent one designed in the 90s.
But some sort of predictive logic was already included also in the control unit of my very simple Naiad system (one gyro head driving everything, no other interface), to avoid the constant correction effect that you mention. Based on the exponential smoothing of the recent corrections history, as I recall from the manual.
Anyhow, what I'm sure of is that it's extremely effective in practice, and I can't imagine what else a more sophisticated system could do, aside from totally eliminating the roll in any kind of sea you'd want to cruise for pleasure.
Last but not least, all the maintenance it required in 15 years was ONE oil and filter change...

Oh, and in reply to wakeup: in practice also in my system the fin movements vary in speed and angle depending on the boat speed, in spite of the much more limited range of boat speed. That's clearly perceivable from the dash gauges.
The difference is that this is controlled just by the gyro head input (and the internal predictive algorythms I mentioned before), but the final result is pretty much comparable.

 

[David_J]

Yup, it will be good to have an album of it in build, and unrepeatable as you say. The twin gensets is a nice touch. Each one can supply the whole boat, so normally you just run one. Each one is 3.3litre diesel and makes 100amps, so the only time you need to fire up two is if you need >100amps, which will be possible but mostly not the case. Airco is say 40amps (it's 3 phase to avoid start-up spikes); at-anchor stabs maybe 15-25amps depending on conditions; 24volt drain (thru batt charger) 10amps say, and that leaves 25-35amps for the galley Also it's nice to be able to choose which side to run if you have awkward neighbours, and to share out the hours across 2 machines I suppose, and to have the backup if one breaks down

I'll update the thread with more pics but it will be a slow burn because the build is now till December 22nd and I'm not likely to get to the factory that often. Once a month maybe

Hope you dont mind me asking but what is the rating of the gensets and if you ever did need them in parallel do they auto synch through software in the control panels? Thanks

 

[jfm]

Hope you dont mind me asking but what is the rating of the gensets and if you ever did need them in parallel do they auto synch through software in the control panels? Thanks

They're 22.5 kva each. Onan MDKBT http://www.cumminsonan.com/www/html/Common/pdf/specsheets/a-1494.pdf

They don't strictly speaking synch in terms of matching the phasing of the sine waves. Fairline use an alternative, which produces a similar result. The 230v circuits on the boat are split into two halves. I forget the detial but let's say the A half is aircon and hydraulics, and the B half is galley and domestics. The two halves are normally connected so they're one whole single circuit, but they're connected by a relay whose coil senses genset operation. If one genset is running, either the port or starboard, A and B are connected, so one genset suppplies the whole boat. And you can alternate/choose which genset that is. But as soon as the you (crazily) need >100amps and you start the second genset, the relay opens and A and B are then separate unsynched halves. One genset feeds A, one feeds B, 100amps each

Same applies with shorepower. There are two s/power leads, and two glendinnings, one for A and one for B. Normally A and B are combined, ie the same circuit, so you only need plug one lead in. But that often limits you to 63amps (in the Med) and the twin leads enables you to plug into two separate shorepower boxes, 126amps. But if you start a genset while on shorepower, A and B separate via the auto relay, and depending which lead and genset you choose to deploy the shorepower supplies A and the genset supplies B, or vice versa. So you can use the genset to supplement the shorepower if needed and get 163 amps on the boat kinda thing

As you can see, all this is done without synching the sine waves of the 2 gensets, or of eaither genset to the national grid

 

[David_J]

Many thanks for the explanation. Great system and far less complicated than trying to synch gensets.

 

[Lozzer]

JFM

Great start on the pics, I love it.

I unload my owners 78 in Gibraltar today so I am quite excited myself.

As you know the yacht I am on has the Seakeepers fitted so will be interested to see how they go. We tried them on sea trial but the sea was as smooth as a babies bottom.

It is amazing how the moulds make these yachts look huge. As soon as you add the parts it quickly brings everything into proportion.

I am very impressed with the overall finish from Fairline but then the 78 is the falgship so it should be as good as it gets.

Looking forward to SoF in July. Do you have a list of the goto restaurants and beach clubs for your charter clients?

All the best.

L

 

[RogerRat]

Build pics all the way

Me too, if you are lucky enough to be watching your new boat in build, (Congrats, btw) it's really good to share the experience with us anorakers.

The 78 does look big though don't it!

I'm also interested in the final galley layout and internal stairway to the flybridge. I also prefer the internal stairway but I was not a fan of the original drawing. I would prefer to turn a corner on the way up than walk over a work top.

Still, keep the pics coming, most of us will enjoy them with you.

 

[Magnum]

Oooh, that's nice jfm. Do you have a new berth in Antibes?

 

[jfm]

I would prefer to turn a corner on the way up than walk over a work top.

Yup, me too. But I have to work with what I've got. The size and position of the deck hatch is totally non negotiable (see first pic below). Unless I move the worktop I'm always going to be walking above it. I can't figure out a better galley layout than the "final" choice made in the other thread, ie second pic below. So I have to put up with the compromise of the steps going above the worktop. Personally, I dont think it's much of a hardship or compromise anyway. There's loads of worktop in the galley generally. I think the stairs will look great. They will have funky lighting and Fairline will make them beautifully with leather covering on the hanrail, etc etc. The Fairline engineer on the case has a great eye/mind for detail; I told him RHS steel generally is seam welded and the weld will show as an imperfection when polished. But I didn't need to tell him; he had already sourced some RHS with surface ground faces so no weld ripple will show. That's how good they are

Moving on to the next chapter. I went to Brundall in Norfolk today to see the guys at Broom boats. They (in earlier days when called "Aquafibre", which was always part of Broom) made all the mould tools for Fairline (incl the sq78) and many of the other big boatbuilders. They are the best GRP toolmakers in the land. Following an introduction by a kind forum member who knows Broom well they kindly agreed to make me a new tool for the upper helm dash, which tool I'll lend to Fairline, who will make the dash and OEM install it. Once again, this is proper custom building; try asking Princess/Ferretti/S'seeker to do that, even on their 80 footers. So Fairline shipped to Broom a finished dash moulding, which Broom will adapt to the new shape, so as to make a plug, off which they'll then make the new mould tool (which will be multi-part). Pics below show the initial mockup of the dash plug. We tweaked it a bit today, but this is pretty much the final shape. They will make the plug next week, and I'll see it next friday before they spray it and get it all shiny. Don't worry that the dash is too high - it isn't; the original was way too low. It's sized for 2x 15inch Garmin touchscreens plus all the other gubbins. This is going to be a really nice job

 

[jfm]

Oooh, that's nice jfm. Do you have a new berth in Antibes?

Hey Magnum, good to hear from you. Yup, should be a nice project. Cat C32s, which you know a thing or 2 about. Though mine will be the 1572hp rating, not your 1679s, cos FL say it does 35 knots with 3144hp and they dont want to go faster/bigger engines cos they would have to redo the design work on the P brackets etc which I'd have to pay for and which might add more drag so negating the benefit of the extra hp

I've bought another berth on Mole Sud. Same side as yours/mine; the last one before the 15m berths start, right before the "kink" in the quay so it's cheese shaped - 6.5m at the stern, fans out towards the bow, so very nice

I'm boatless for a while; I handed over the BoS and keys on the Sq58 today