Boat-hook thready mooring-buoy thingies

Elessar said:
Lassoing is the fastest and safest way of bringing the boat under control in order to make fast properly.

I do it, will continue to do it and continue to teach it.

It shows good seamanship.
Click to expand...

I would hope you teach your students to have the boat in control on the approach to and during mooring to the buoy.

If you are relying on the buoy to stop the boat and get it under control you really are going to damage the buoy and the mooring system no matter what the make up is...

You are also going to be endangering your students fingers, feet, limbs as the load comes on to stop the boat :eek:.

You make it sound quite a hit or miss operation this mooring thing..

NormanS said:
No, it shows a complete lack of seamanship, and I think you know it does.

It also shows a complete disregard for other peoples property.

Is that what the RYA teaches?
Click to expand...

I agree and I agree and I believe so.

I would guess it started as a "trick up the sleeve" to get out of difficult situations and now its become routine it seems...

Its probably the easiest method to teach, everything else is more difficult :rolleyes:.
 
onesea said:
I would hope you teach your students to have the boat in control on the approach to and during mooring to the buoy.

If you are relying on the buoy to stop the boat and get it under control you really are going to damage the buoy and the mooring system no matter what the make up is...

You are also going to be endangering your students fingers, feet, limbs as the load comes on to stop the boat :eek:.

You make it sound quite a hit or miss operation this mooring thing..



I agree and I agree and I believe so.

I would guess it started as a "trick up the sleeve" to get out of difficult situations and now its become routine it seems...

Its probably the easiest method to teach, everything else is more difficult :rolleyes:.
Click to expand...

Yes OK so you have me there. Poor choice of words on my part. The boat is stopped, under control, by the buoy, coming into the prevailing force.

The lassoo is dropped and a turn made around a cleat. The wind and/or tide they takes the load on the rope, but the boat remains still.

I agree I made it sounded like I use the lassoo to stop the boat - not the case I use it to keep it stopped.

There is plenty of time to secure the boat properly.

No it isn't a last resort, it's a first resort.

BTW, I find 2 buoys when the tide is running and get them to put the pulpit above 1 and hold it for 5 seconds, then the other 5 seconds, then back to the 1st one again, without ever selecting reverse gear. Teaches low speed control, right angle of attack etc.
 
Far as I'm concerned it's irrelevant whether or not lassooing actually damages buoys.

Being able to borrow someone else's mooring is something we should all be grateful for, and just like borrowing any property, we should respect its owner's wishes. It's clear that at least some mooring owners do not wish their buoys to be lassooed. That should be an end to it.

The attitude displayed on this thread - "I'm going to treat your property however I damn well feel like, because it suits me to do so and I think your concerns are silly" is almost unbelievable.

If you borrowed someone's car, and they said "please don't take it above 4000 revs, it's not good for it", would you say to yourself "silly old fool" and floor it the moment you got round the corner? And in that situation at least the owner had the choice of lending it to you or not.

Pete
 
I dislike the lassoing technique because I dislike having to manhandle wet slimy ropes. I'm fortunate enough that the freeboard is low enough on my boat that I can easily loop the line through the eye on a mooring after bringing it alongside midships. Once that is made off then I let the boat lie how it likes and then make adjustments, add extra lines at leisure. That said, I have a pickup on my mooring but since my boathook got nicked I still use the same method.

However, that does not mean that using a lasso is wrong. Blaming it on damaging and sinking buoys is verging on the ridiculous, mooring buoys are either solid foam, or inflatable plastic, like heavy duty fenders. You'd need a harpoon to puncture one.

Lassoing is taught by the RYA because it is reliable, practical and safe. Almost anyone can do it under any conditions, but it is only ever a temporary measure whilst you moor up properly, then you can release the lasso and bring it on deck with all of the slime, weed and bits of barnacle it's scraped off the chain and buoy.
 
Woodlouse said:
I dislike the lassoing technique because I dislike having to manhandle wet slimy ropes. I'm fortunate enough that the freeboard is low enough on my boat that I can easily loop the line through the eye on a mooring after bringing it alongside midships. Once that is made off then I let the boat lie how it likes and then make adjustments, add extra lines at leisure. That said, I have a pickup on my mooring but since my boathook got nicked I still use the same method.

However, that does not mean that using a lasso is wrong. Blaming it on damaging and sinking buoys is verging on the ridiculous, mooring buoys are either solid foam, or inflatable plastic, like heavy duty fenders. You'd need a harpoon to puncture one.

Lassoing is taught by the RYA because it is reliable, practical and safe. Almost anyone can do it under any conditions, but it is only ever a temporary measure whilst you moor up properly, then you can release the lasso and bring it on deck with all of the slime, weed and bits of barnacle it's scraped off the chain and buoy.
Click to expand...

Wisest reply thusfar.

Different situations, different preferences, different solutions. What's wrong with that?

(BTW and for context my freeboard is about 2m.)
 
Babylon said:
1/ invest in buoys that are filled with polystyrene which won't sink - ever!
Click to expand...
If the body pulls off the rod then the polystyrene won't help.
Babylon said:
2/ acknowledge that a sunk buoy does not imply that the entire mooring needs to be relaid - just the buoy needs recovering and replacing with one fit for all purposes.
Click to expand...
That's going to depend on the bottom, surely ?
Babylon said:
3/ appreciate that you cannot stop the tide and people will always lasso buoys - if you cannot do this, then you'll always find yourself in a lather, whether over people or the RYA.
Click to expand...
If the RYA can be persuaded to teach differently then the tide can be stopped.

Boo2
 
Babylon said:
Now see that the current issue of YM has a test report on the available range of gadgets, and the lasso method - the budget option - beats the others hands-down.
Click to expand...
But which was the best out of the non-lassoing methods/gadgets ?

Boo2
 
I'm a bit wary of posting in what has become a quite heated thread, but just to give my 2p worth... I am fortunate to sail in an area where anchoring is much more common than mooring, and I can only think of one occasion when, in an emergency, I picked up a private mooring. Designated visitor moorings are, however, used fairly often.

I generally single hand so tend to use a bow line taken back to the cockpit where I can thread either the pick up loop if there is one, or the ring or shackle on the buoy using a line threader. I have found, however, that by itself this tends to be a bit hit and miss since unless the angle is exactly right the magic gadget does not work properly. So I now use a Boscombe hook on a fairly short line to a sheet winch to make the initial connection, pull that in to hold the buoy against the hull and with the ring at exactly the right angle for the threader to work, then thread the mooring line. (I use 3m chain spliced to two lengths of anchor plait.) I then release the Boscombe and adjust the mooring line on the forward cleats.
 
Back in the real world...

I've never had to lassoe a buoy ever except on sailing courses, and I regularly pick up spare moorings in Sweare Deep while waiting for the tide.

Just have a line made onto a forward cleat / sampson post, then led around the outside of the guardrails & shrouds back to the cockpit.

Then approach the buoy in question at dead slow and either bung a the line straight through the ring or use a boathook.

If the buoy doesn't have an eye of some kind I'd be asking myself if it's meant for mooring at all...
 
In our experience solid buoys only last a little longer than inflatable ones because they wear through around the spindle. We have tried a number of manufacturers of buoys
Recovery of moorings is nigh on impossible when one realises that they are deep water & the only recovery method is dragging a rake behind a launch. This is ok in shallow water where the mooring chain is still on the surface of the seabed & not sunk in the mud However, we only have a 1 in 5 success rate
There is no use using divers as the water is too discoloured
Our mooring committee & club members have been doing this mooring lark for years & they have found what we believe is the best systems & products

We know lassoing damages buoys because some of our older members live on the seafront & have seen it happen

As i said before lassoing is a product of poor seamanship. If the trainees are not much good then dumb own the activity so the trainee passes the test

If you want to lasso then stay away from our moorings

& while I am on - our moorings are for boats up to 30 ft. And some buoys clearly state the boat length. Lots are only 20 ft long
So can someone explain why owners of 40 ft yachts & motorboats still insist on mooring to them. Every year we have a mooring dragged by these boats
One day we actually had one twit lasso our starting mark with a 42 ft yacht & then proceed to moor stern too. He even had the hump when we pointed out it had a ruddy great " A" on it & that he was gently drifting down tide
 
Daydream believer said:
In our experience solid buoys only last a little longer than inflatable ones because they wear through around the spindle. We have tried a number of manufacturers of buoys
Recovery of moorings is nigh on impossible when one realises that they are deep water & the only recovery method is dragging a rake behind a launch. This is ok in shallow water where the mooring chain is still on the surface of the seabed & not sunk in the mud However, we only have a 1 in 5 success rate
There is no use using divers as the water is too discoloured
Our mooring committee & club members have been doing this mooring lark for years & they have found what we believe is the best systems & products

We know lassoing damages buoys because some of our older members live on the seafront & have seen it happen

As i said before lassoing is a product of poor seamanship. If the trainees are not much good then dumb own the activity so the trainee passes the test

If you want to lasso then stay away from our moorings

& while I am on - our moorings are for boats up to 30 ft. And some buoys clearly state the boat length. Lots are only 20 ft long
So can someone explain why owners of 40 ft yachts & motorboats still insist on mooring to them. Every year we have a mooring dragged by these boats
One day we actually had one twit lasso our starting mark with a 42 ft yacht & then proceed to moor stern too. He even had the hump when we pointed out it had a ruddy great " A" on it & that he was gently drifting down tide
Click to expand...

Daydream Believer ( Monkees fan ?! )

maybe people don't get the 'A' lettering etc, possibly a clearly painted on ' up to 20 feet ' etc might be an idea ?

As for lassoing, while I don't feel the need I've worked on moorings for 40 years and still don't get how lassoing is damaging ?!

Can you or somebody explain please ?
 
Seajet said:
Daydream Believer ( Monkees fan ?! )

maybe people don't get the 'A' lettering etc, possibly a clearly painted on ' up to 20 feet ' etc might be an idea ?

As for lassoing, while I don't feel the need I've worked on moorings for 40 years and still don't get how lassoing is damaging ?!

Can you or somebody explain please ?
Click to expand...

Sorry Seajet I put my thoughts in that on a different thread here...
 
I ended up getting a mooring hook imported from the states as I couldn't bring myself to spend £30+ on a 'brand name' one.

About £22 including postage for anyone that is interested:

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Stainless...at_Parts_Accessories_Gear&hash=item3cc8b38947

I got a detachable karabina type one as it also forms part of my MOB plans.

Clipped on to the end of a halyard, it can be clipped onto the lifejacket of someone in the water and you stand half a chance of dragging them back in..
 
prv said:
Far as I'm concerned it's irrelevant whether or not lassooing actually damages buoys.

Being able to borrow someone else's mooring is something we should all be grateful for, and just like borrowing any property, we should respect its owner's wishes. It's clear that at least some mooring owners do not wish their buoys to be lassooed. That should be an end to it.

The attitude displayed on this thread - "I'm going to treat your property however I damn well feel like, because it suits me to do so and I think your concerns are silly" is almost unbelievable.

If you borrowed someone's car, and they said "please don't take it above 4000 revs, it's not good for it", would you say to yourself "silly old fool" and floor it the moment you got round the corner? And in that situation at least the owner had the choice of lending it to you or not.

Pete
Click to expand...

If I see someone lassoing my mooring buoy, would I be justified in climbing aboard pulling myself up by a good heave on the top of a stanchion to tell them not to do it again. Both are actions that usually will not but sometimes can cause damage, depending on the exact circumstances, materials, etc.

And recovering a deep water mooring from the bottom where the buoy has broken off is not a trivial or cheap exercise for the mooring owner - usually it involves employing a diver. A few years ago the buoy on the mooring I was allocated disappeared - it was one of the solid-and-rod types most vulnerable to damage by lassoing. Returned to find mooring apparently disappeared - had to go into marina and pay.

My current mooring has a pickup float on the strop and a support buoy. The 24 inch dia support buoy which cost about £75 is just there to hold up the chain - looking at the construction I can imagine that it would be fairly easy to stress the buoy to breaking point by lassoing it in windy conditions. or if the boat was not fully stopped.

Sailing schools should not teach this as the standard method..... And if they really must teach this as an emergency manouevre they should use their own moorings to do so.
 
jwilson said:
Sailing schools should not teach this as the standard method..... And if they really must teach this as an emergency manouevre they should use their own moorings to do so.
Click to expand...

Although I don't feel myself to be involved in this argument, since I have a wife-type-thingy to do the mooring for me, and I am not the possessor of a mooring, I can see that the problem seems to be that those with a detailed knowledge of the problems involved have not been able to get the message across to those who use and teach this method.

If the damage is as frequent and as expensive as we are told (and which I don't myself doubt) then those with contacts in the RYA could use them to good effect by initiating a debate there.
 
sam_uk said:
I ended up getting a mooring hook imported from the states as I couldn't bring myself to spend £30+ on a 'brand name' one.

About £22 including postage for anyone that is interested:

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Stainless...at_Parts_Accessories_Gear&hash=item3cc8b38947

I got a detachable karabina type one as it also forms part of my MOB plans.

Clipped on to the end of a halyard, it can be clipped onto the lifejacket of someone in the water and you stand half a chance of dragging them back in..
Click to expand...

Is that the same thing at £38 over here - http://www.saltyjohn.co.uk/mooringmate.htm ?
 
johnalison said:
Although I don't feel myself to be involved in this argument, since I have a wife-type-thingy to do the mooring for me, and I am not the possessor of a mooring, I can see that the problem seems to be that those with a detailed knowledge of the problems involved have not been able to get the message across to those who use and teach this method.

If the damage is as frequent and as expensive as we are told (and which I don't myself doubt) then those with contacts in the RYA could use them to good effect by initiating a debate there.
Click to expand...

wise words.

perhaps the reason why the ranty types on here can't get their point accross is this:

when you lassoo a buoy, the friction of the chain, and the fact that the buoy will move up and away from the lassoo rope, means you will not put anything like the full force on the buoy.

But lets say you do put the full force on. For a 12 m yacht in a force 4, the rope will have a tension of about 130 kg.

But hey we cause all this carnage. Lets go out in a force 9. The load goes up to 1000 kg.

Do I want my wife pulling even 130 kg on a boathook? No.

But what does the buoy think - this is 3000kg. The equivilant of the full force of a 50 ft yacht in a hurricane.

Oh look it hasn't split or burst.......
buoy.jpg
 
Last edited:
Elessar said:
Do I want my wife pulling even 130 kg on a boathook? No.

Oh look it hasn't split or burst.......
Click to expand...


If you expect to get 130kg of force during mooring operations I really think you need to consider your boat handling!

My SWMBO would go ape if she had to pull more than 20kg, in fact she would just drop it and tell me to do it again properly :eek:. Or more to the point come back and show me how to do it properly!

Now try threading a rope through it, then Pulling on that rope. No damage to fender?
If you put a knot in the end of the rope and lasso the fender are you feeling so confident?
 
Last edited:
You must log in or register to reply here.

Share this page

Top