Boat Electrics/electronics Conundrum.

Riggy

Riggy

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I sold my last boat and moved to rural France 12 years ago and by twists of fate I have happily ended up just outside Malaga and recently managed to buy a small coastal cruiser. :cool::cool::cool:
Please be advised my electronic/electrical knowledge is quite limited.
I found the boat I wanted in Cadiz so trooped off down there accompanied by the Spanish father, of my step daughters husband, 9I married into a Spanish family) who is a retired Ocean Yachtmaster. We sea trialed and he did most of the checking of the boat for me as after 12 years away, I am well rusty. All seemed fine.
Having got my mini cruiser shipped from Cadiz to Malaga and on the water a couple of weeks ago, one thing I /we neglected to check on purchase overview/sea trial etc was the electric bog. Turns out it didnt work (employed the local bilge rat attached to my local marina who checked the electrics, said the pump and/or motor were knackered...now know its a blockage so nothing serious) but being sorted. A day or so after the local "engineer/bilge rat" has started to sort the toilet, I go down to the boat, turn things on and fire up the engine. Everything kicks into life including the instrument panel... which immediately goes dead, on all instrument readings except fuel guage. It has stayed dead since then.
After three days of bilge rat checking electrics,finding nothing, then getting someone with computer analysis on the system, I am informed that the on board computer/black box/system management thing is shot and needs replacing at a cost of €2,500. :ambivalence:
So, I opt for a second opinion from a German marine engineer, by phone describing all the previous, who says....If the black box is knackered then the engine wouldnt even start.....can anyone verify or deny this please?
The engine starts perfectly, battery charging via multi meter test is ok, all other electrics on board working, no blown fuses in the main fuse box, just a dead instrument panel.
The German second opinion did suggest that there might be an inline fuse somewhere twixt the ignition, fuse box and instrument panel wiring which was not found by the first bilge rat.
My simplistic brain has taken on board all the info, but cannot work out the computerised black box conundrum as it is above my brain and pay grade, if that is indeed the problem, but seems to indicate that as everything on the boat is working except the instrument panel, a more simplistic solution could be forthcoming?
One thing that perturbs me is, it was only after the first bilge rat came to check the bog and other electrics...which were working each and every time I fired her up....that the instrument panel went tits up.

Boat is a Spanish built Lema Gen 2, same as this but not this one.

https://uk.topboats.com/barcos-ocasion/lema-gen-ii-0504150331

Volvo Penta 4.3l petrol injection.

All help appreciated especially if anyone has owned one of these boats.
 
I'll go along with the second opinion, if the engine starts and runs fine then the ECU certainly aint goosed.
Although a fuse to the instrument panel is a bit weird. I would suspect an earth (0V return) disconnect instead, or even a multi plug that un-plugged.
So, how come the fuel gauge works?? well, the sensor is in a very different place to the rest, so its wires most likely run a different way.

{thinking on the hoof here}
Check the ECU, likely 1 multi plug to the engine, another to the instruments.
Check behind instrument panel, likely to be a plug there too.

Oh, and dont worry (yet) this sounds eminently easy to fix.
 
Dougal Tolan said:
I'll go along with the second opinion, if the engine starts and runs fine then the ECU certainly aint goosed.
Although a fuse to the instrument panel is a bit weird. I would suspect an earth (0V return) disconnect instead, or even a multi plug that un-plugged.
So, how come the fuel gauge works?? well, the sensor is in a very different place to the rest, so its wires most likely run a different way.

{thinking on the hoof here}
Check the ECU, likely 1 multi plug to the engine, another to the instruments.
Check behind instrument panel, likely to be a plug there too.

Oh, and dont worry (yet) this sounds eminently easy to fix.
Click to expand...

Thank you gents. As said before, I am an electronics numpty but common sense, logic and an analytical brain said that there should be a more simple/direct solution.
 
ECU is not dead if engine runs. Instruments are daisy chained J1939. So if the connection from engine to first instrument is bad, the remaining daisy chained instruments will also not work. Basically, check the connections from engine to instrument panel and look for a bad joint, multiplug, fuse, etc
 
There will be a black box (Helm Control Unit) behind the dash, there is a harness from this to the ignition switch and others going to the engine and instruments, check all of the multiplugs with the power off then see if the instruments come back to life, its most likely your bilge rat has disturbed something.
 
Again thanks. I am slowly checking through all the suggested fixes. Had the dash out this morning re engaging as many plugs and live feeds etc that I could find. This was also apparently done by the first bilge rat. Practically every joint and plug or live feed that I found has been in near excellent condition. My thoughts now may be with the earthing system.

jfm. Thanks for confirming what the German engineer second opinion said.

Dougal Tolan. I am tying to check the earth connections wherever I can find them. I have found another conundrum but dont know whether this (image below...right click and open in new tab) is part of the earthing system or a securing strap around the fuel tank....or possibly both....when I pulled on it, it was evidently rusted right through....if this IS part of the earthing daisy chain then its possible that first bilge rat severed the rusting linkage when he was poking around in this small locker.

mSRI2
 
spannerman said:
The EVC system earths through its harness to the engine and via the engine negative battery cable
Click to expand...

As I said. electronic numpty here...just trying to get up to speed on things. Only an hour ago did the Spanish boatyard identify the piece in question...as you have correctly labelled it Spannerman the Electronic Vessel Control.
Questions:
Is is possible for the EVC to "partly" malfunction thus cutting off supply to the instrument panel? The general concensus is that if the EVC is malfunctioning then the engine wouldnt start. I have done a little research in the past hour but as I say, am playing catch up.
What does this control box at the helm operate please?

Sorry, my image hosting system has gone haywire recently, right click on square and "open image in new tab".

tu1
 
The HCU (helm control unit) has inputs from the throttle lever, ignition key, kill cord and trim buttons. It has outputs for the gauges and any eve displays. It also communicated all of this information to the PCU (power control unit). This then connects to the engine ecu, trim pump and fuel / water tank sensors. It does happen that part of its functionality stops working (noelrmally the instruments)

Try an auto reconfigure but I suspect you need a new HCU.


If you had a second engine it's best to swap the HCU first to check
 
The main ECU is on the engine which controks the starting/ stopping and monitoring/running of the engine. It sends engine data to the HCU at the helm which sends the info to the instruments and collects commands from the throttle/gear shift and trim buttons and ignition switch and sends them to the ECU, simply put they are electronic sorting centers. It is possible for the engine to run without the instruments in theory as they are run from a daisy chain plugged into X3 AUX socket on the HCU which is colour coded pink.
 
Thank you aquatom and spannerman for excellent feedback information.

One possibly important piece of information in all this has accidentally been omitted. My Spanish missus who has be translating all the technical guff from the boatyard/engineer forgot to tell me until last evening, that the boatyard "claim" they put a replacement EVC (someone has a 2 grand piece of equipment specific to my size/make of boat lying around...or do EVCs not work that way?) and the instrument panel was working, hence quoting me €2,500 for its replacement, fitting and Volvo coding.

I am obviously hoping for a get out of jail free card with all this before dipping deep in my pocket, so once again, please excuse the efforts (numpty questions et al) to find out if there is a fault somewhere ...possibly caused by a big booted Spanish engineer trying to find a fault for a non working bog.....other than the EVC.

Is it possible that the "daisy chain plugged into X3 AUX socket on the HCU which is colour coded pink." or similar, is at fault causing the EVC to think and/or give the impression that it is partially knackered?

Again, many thanks.
 
I second Aquatom, try swapping the HCU's over and see if its resolves the problem, you may get a fault message saying the software isn't compatible but I have done this before to eliminate components. The entire system HCU, ECU and PCU are electronically coded so VP know which box is in which boat and what version of software its running on, this way you can order them from VP fully programmed or you can download the software from VP into a Vodia then upload it into the system in the boat. Also check there other end of the harness from the HCU where it plugs into the rev counter.
 
spannerman;6091984 It is possible for the engine to run without the instruments in theory as they are run from a daisy chain plugged into X3 AUX socket on the HCU which is colour coded pink.[/QUOTE said:
Checked the wiring down below today and unfortunately the instrument panel loom is routed directly into EVC box. Went to the boatyard this afternoon and the big chief told me they had got another EVc off a similar boat, plugged it in and the instruments were all working. I dont know what the options are now apart from trying to see if VP do a trade in on a second hand remapped one or trade in on a new one or that this one is scrap.
Click to expand...
 
Riggy said:
Checked the wiring down below today and unfortunately the instrument panel loom is routed directly into EVC box. Went to the boatyard this afternoon and the big chief told me they had got another EVc off a similar boat, plugged it in and the instruments were all working. I dont know what the options are now apart from trying to see if VP do a trade in on a second hand remapped one or trade in on a new one or that this one is scrap.
Click to expand...

The other option is to see if a car engineer be managerment specialist can repair it. I know this has been tried by others on here but don't know the results. You could also call coastal rides and see what they have
 
Ask the Big Chief if he used yours on a similar boat with a wiring problem and thats why it went bang!! Thats unscrupulous in my book and I'd be wary of doing further business with them
 
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