boat damaged... advice sought

[ribrage]

A few weeks back I put the (t)rusty ketch onto the quay in the morning and nipped off to visit the old folks, i was away for most of the day. Upon my return i found 4 boats rafted outside of me, no big deal its what i expected, what i didnt expect to find was that they had no shore lines attached and the combined weight of boats and the leverage it had combined with a spring tide had caused one of my spring lines to work loose/stretch and my boat had shifted back far enough that the plank keeping me off the vertical piles had slipped in between them
resulting in my freshly varnished rubbing strake suffering some damage, the plank had then been pushed into the hull of my boat and was merrily chipping away at a port hole and its surround..... i gritted my teeth and walked to the other side of the boat to have a word with my new neighbours..... what i found next was that the boat alongside me had tied off to one of my winches and not the samson post 3 feet away, the winch is on a raised teak plate and is mounted to the deck and cockpit combing also teak and the whole lot was moving outward under the load of an estimated 25/30 ton of boats !

My initial reaction was to reach for my dive knife and cut them all loose, i called to the people concerned and told them all to get off NOW, which one by one they did.

But Im left with a winch (est cost £800) which no longer works and damage to the side of the boat to boot....

My Question is this ?

Obviously the boat outside of me has moored up poorly and his initial actions of tieing to the winch has caused considerable damage and he has allowed other vessels alongside him with out insisting they tie alongside with shore lines as well .

My initial thought is to send the guy a bill for the repairs But as the other boats were CHARGED to tie alongside me does the harbour authority have a liability.... a duty of care ? surely if they accept payment to tie alongside me they have a duty of care to ensure the vessels outside of me have done so in a suitable manor, after all they have walked across my boat to collect the money !!!

if i have to lift the boat and repaint it and replace the winch i am facing costs running into thousands of pounds and at present everbody has denied responsibility...... the guy outside of me is not answering my calls and the HM says my boat shouldnt have been left unattended and apparently that is a local bylaw ..... Ive seen nothing in writing to that effect nor have i signed or been handed anything to that effect the ferrys are left there unattended each day and every boat that ties up, when the crew go ashore leave the boat unattended.. !!

where do i stand, legal eagles ?

I have passed the details to my insurance co but i have a £500 pound excess and would like to avoid losing my no claims

 

[gardenshed]

really sorry to hear about your plight.
have you spoken to your insurance company? You may find that their advice is the best that you could get. I've found this with Pantaenius and the impact of losing a no claims bonus is minimal.
They will appoint a surveyor and in effect, you will get a free survey as the insurance company will want to make sure that the full extent of the damage is identified and fixed properly.
Your biggest issue will be to get the boat fixed quickly, competently and to still allow you to enjoy some sailing this year.
If you recover anything from the boats that moored outside you or from the harbourmaster, then I'd be very surprised. Pleased for you, but surprised.

 

[Refueler]

I would pass all contact and incident details to Insurance Co. explaining that damage was caused by their incompetence. It's part of their job to sort liabilities, whether it be HM's, other boat Owners etc.

Loss of No-Claims - many Ins. Co's now allow a claim without losing it if you have max and good record.

Trying to sort yourself will possibly fail ... I think you are finding that now ?

 

[ytd]

I wonder whether we would get the same story from the other boat owners. Not the same as your situation but I once rafted up alongside a lovely wooden boat (after being instructed to by the HM) which was moored with a minimum of fenders and very short lines. We had long lines so our boat was only moored to the dock. Went ashore, came back a couple of hours later and noticed that with an increasing wind, the wooden boat was banging on the dock and had gouged his topsides because he had only a single spring and one of his 2 fenders had moved. Spent half and hour moving him along the dock so that the boat didn't bang with only 2 fenders and used one of our lines for a spring. No room on his tiny cleats to tie off the spring so I used a winch. Owner arrives back the next day. Accuses me of damaging his boat because I had moved it and then claims the winch had been broken and that any fool knows not to moor off a winch. I retrieved my spring line and moved berth. He threatened police and solicitors letters but we ignored him.
I bet we are still the bad guys when the wooden boat owner recounts how his boat was damaged by inexperienced idiots.

 

[Refueler]

I fully believe you ... there area always cases that need both sides version.

Here we have a guy who states that the raft didn't put lines to shore - that inner boat on him was carrying the outer via lines to his winch etc.
I think arguments would ensue whatever and whoever guilty.

My course would be to let Ins. Co's argue it out based on statements of all. Whatever way - damage is going to be an Ins. job if significant ... so might as well go full blown claim and name other boats.

 

[lw395]

What winch can be so easily damaged?
One of my boats only had one cleat when I bought her, winches were always used for mooring, they should be the strongest bit on a boat. Things are going wrong if a mooring warp has more load than a spinnaker guy, even a reefing line...?
Rafting is a fact of life. Mooring in places where fender planks are needed it is always a risk to leave the boat unnattended.

My advice would be to evaluate the damage and decide whether to claim. I am sceptical about your £800 winch, for that you should be looking at a pretty stout one that would not have broken. It can probably be refurbished too.

I'm sorry your boat got damaged, but these things happen, best to get it fixed and enjoy the rest of the season.

 

[footsoldier]

ribrage

It is telling that none of the posters thus far have expressed any outrage at the failure of the raft to use their own shore-lines. IMHO this is appalling seamanship and also ill-mannered in the extreme. It seems that nowadays such behaviour passes almost without comment and thus eventually will become normalised.

I think the advice given is wise. That level of damage is best left for the insurers to sort out. That's what you pay them for.

 

[Refueler]

[ QUOTE ]
ribrage

It is telling that none of the posters thus far have expressed any outrage at the failure of the raft to use their own shore-lines. IMHO this is appalling seamanship and also ill-mannered in the extreme. It seems that nowadays such behaviour passes almost without comment and thus eventually will become normalised.

I think the advice given is wise. That level of damage is best left for the insurers to sort out. That's what you pay them for.

[/ QUOTE ]

I think that most have centred on the point of the thread - to see what reparations can be got.

We all know and appreciate that own lines to shore backing up any others are sensible. but that is not posters point. He's looking for repair / claim advice.

Just my POV .. /forums/images/graemlins/wink.gif

 

[KenMcCulloch]

[ QUOTE ]
ribrage

It is telling that none of the posters thus far have expressed any outrage at the failure of the raft to use their own shore-lines. IMHO this is appalling seamanship and also ill-mannered in the extreme. It seems that nowadays such behaviour passes almost without comment and thus eventually will become normalised.

I think the advice given is wise. That level of damage is best left for the insurers to sort out. That's what you pay them for.

[/ QUOTE ]

I agree. I once had to insist to the 'skipper' of a 100 ton Brixham trawler who moored alongside our 35 ton boat that if he wasn't prepared to put lines ashore I would have to remove his lines from my cleats and insist he went elsewhere. He was unaccountably reluctant to do so until confronted with my intransigence.

 

[lw395]

Yes, I take the point about shorelines, particularly in current. I don't believe that every boat in a raft of 6 needs them, or a short boat outside a long one, but some thought is needed as to what holds the raft in place.