Boat buying & selling, your brokerage experiences

[PaulGooch]

I have never "attacked" anybody. My criticism is always related to the lack of substance of the "complaints" that are made. They simply do not stack up. Long on rhetoric and short on fact - and when "fact" is proposed it is almost always wrong.

By all means express your dislike or unhappiness with your own personal experoince, but do not claim that it is representatative of a general feeling.

Hits are now approaching 7000 on the original thread. Less than 1% of that number have voted in your "poll" and barely half of those have expressed even general concern. As I said earlier, the number of people who have expressed any specific concern is in single figures - and NONE of those provide any documented evidence to support their position.

You clearly have a personal problem with aspects of the way that brokerage sales are conducted - but it is not shared by others. If it is really so important to you, then you should take it up with the approriate bodies.

It is clear from these exchanges that you have no intention of accepting any explanation as to why things are as they are, nor have you managed to gain any significant support for your views, so perhaps it is a good time to forget all about it and get on with life.

Sorry, remind us all which poll results you're looking at ?

 

[PaulGooch]

Paul. I don't think ARI is a broker.

Neither do i, which is why i wonder what his motives are.

Clearly you do not think these measures go far enough and it should be made law that all yacht brokers should follow this not just ABYA members. I 100% agree with you.

Don't see what the continued debate is for them.

I assumed that as you also handle client money you would be operating in a similar fashion as an accredited broker, and may have additional measures that you would like adopted in the Yacht Broking industry.

So I asked you if you had a client account and you have responded.

Of course i don't and i don't know of anyone in the motor trade that does.

Thank you for your candour. It was a straight question and you have given a straight answer. No personal attack intended from me.

It's simply not how things are done in the motor trade.

When i sell a car, i generally take a small holding deposit if the buyer wants to collect the car at a later date. At the very most, this would be £200, sometimes less. I've held cars for a week for as little as £20.

The buyer is welcome to take a free of charge, no obligation test drive at my expense. He's also welcome to have the car independently examined by anyone he chooses, still without having paid a deposit. He's even welcome to take test drives in 2 or 3 cars if he's unsure of exactly which he likes the most, again at my cost.

Anything i offer for sale will belong to me, i don't broker cars. I'm obliged to maintain various forms of insurance (some legally, others voluntarily). My sales are governed by the sale of goods act and a host of other legislation and i have a duty of care to my customers. When i sell a car, i have a duty to the buyer, unlike yacht brokerage deals.

A response to answer to the inane and childish "car salesman" remarks made by Tom Bettle (Nautibusiness) and one or two others is almost certainly overdue. After enduring the personal attacks on here, WSF, FaceBook and by PM, i think i might be entitled to a say sometime soon.

 

[Tranona]

Sorry, remind us all which poll results you're looking at ?

Your own Poll on here which now has 78 respondents. The largest number of "negative" votes is 45, the next 43. All other "negative" responses are less than 50%.

As I say, not really evidence of mass disenchantment, and certainly not in relation to the number of "hits" (over 10000) of your two threads - and the number of posts.

As I said last night, the only thing of substance to underpin this apparent disenchantment comes from 3 people - and then it does not stand up to any rigorous scrutiny as it is only personal opinion that is not shared by others.

 

[PaulGooch]

Your own Poll on here which now has 78 respondents. The largest number of "negative" votes is 45, the next 43. All other "negative" responses are less than 50%.

Not sure where you learned your maths.

As a buyer, i would like to see improvements made to the system yes/no 44/24 65% yes
As a seller, i would like to see improvements made to the system yes/no 34/16 68% yes
The current system of client accounts does not adequately protect buyers yes/no 40/14 74% yes
I have had a bad experience when dealing with a broker yes/no 33/32 51% Yes
Brokers should be regulated 46/11 84% yes

There's only one question that even comes close to 50%. Given the other results, it might be fair to assume that's because some people ticked both boxes, because they had both good and bad experiences. But that's only a guess, i might be wrong.

As I said last night, the only thing of substance to underpin this apparent disenchantment comes from 3 people - and then it does not stand up to any rigorous scrutiny as it is only personal opinion that is not shared by others.

Not sure how you manage to twist the results to only 3 people being dissatisfied. Probably by using the same maths as you do to work percentages out.

As i've said before, the reason many people won't post here, or the other thread is because you and the other brokers will almost certainly ridicule and attack them.

Oh, you've still not clarified exactly what your vested interests are.

Perhaps you could post your full name and profession and we can look into with a few internet searches.

 

[DAKA]

One personal attack after lots of provocation. And I note you chose not to comment on the attacks from DAKA, and his snide insinuating threads that seem to have vanished....

Its not the one way traffic you imagine...

I am a little baffled by your post which appears to accuse me of posting personal attacked

Several years ago I posted how unregulated brokers were misusing clients accounts.

I was called a troll and had to suffer a lot of abuse from certain forum members.

I have patiently waited for a court case to conclude so I could post proof in order to clear my name.
Unfortunately an apology hasnt been given to me either openly or by pm.
Neither has anyone apologised to Paul who has also cleared his name by proving others are equally unhappy about many aspects of yacht Brokers.ing on.
I also posted details of scams that yacht Brokers pull and again my honesty is called into question so i post full details.

I feel that there have been many attacks on me personally over the years and certainly Paul is under attack now but I am not attempting to attack anyone personally.

I am making sure any posts of mine that get questioned are fully justified.

I have many complaints about dodgy yacht broking practices but I do not expect the yacht Brokers on this forum are continuing with these bad practices.

Its not me accusing the forums yacht brokers of dodgy dealings or being oblivious to the dissatisfaction of their customers however I am surprised that the forum yacht brokers themselves who appear to view the poll results as acceptable.

 

[PaulGooch]

<snip> I am surprised that the forum yacht brokers themselves who appear to view the poll results as acceptable.

Maybe they went to the Tranona school of mathematics

 

[Tranona]

Not sure where you learned your maths.

As a buyer, i would like to see improvements made to the system yes/no 44/24 65% yes
As a seller, i would like to see improvements made to the system yes/no 34/16 68% yes
The current system of client accounts does not adequately protect buyers yes/no 40/14 74% yes
I have had a bad experience when dealing with a broker yes/no 33/32 51% Yes
Brokers should be regulated 46/11 84% yes

There's only one question that even comes close to 50%. Given the other results, it might be fair to assume that's because some people ticked both boxes, because they had both good and bad experiences. But that's only a guess, i might be wrong.



Not sure how you manage to twist the results to only 3 people being dissatisfied. Probably by using the same maths as you do to work percentages out.

As i've said before, the reason many people won't post here, or the other thread is because you and the other brokers will almost certainly ridicule and attack them.

Oh, you've still not clarified exactly what your vested interests are.

Perhaps you could post your full name and profession and we can look into with a few internet searches.

All you are doing is displaying your own ignorance. The %age I used was exactly that calculated in your poll. It is based on the number of people who voted. Just look at the calculations.

If you wish to recast them to suit your argument then do so - you are just kidding your self. Of the 78 people that responded. 46 (59%), said yes, 11 (14%) said no and 21 (27%) had no view on Regulation. In your "figures" you are denying the "don't knows"

Your poll is seriously flawed - it is not a representative sample, the questions are too simplistic. You are right, you have no idea who ticked what boxes. You do not know who these people are or what they represent. So, now perhaps you will understand my scepticism about the validity of your poll.

If you do a content analysis of the thread that started this, you will find only 3 people You, Cold Fusion and DAKA have specific strong negative views on the subject. Others recount their experiences and express varying degrees of both dissatisfaction and satisfaction that cannot be captured in a simplistic Yes/no poll.

Once and for all I have no "vested interest". I come from a background that values truth, rational thinking and evidence. And that is why when I see people making statements that I do not believe are true, I ask them to provide evidence to support what they say.

So, once again, where is your evidence that brokers steal money from client accounts, use client account money for their own purposes and force people to buy boats against their will?

I have also never suggested that the "system" or brokers are perfect - nothing ever is. What I object to is individuals claiming that their polarized view on a particular issue is representative.

A number of people have taken the trouble to answer your questions with well reasoned arguments and you simply reject them, claiming your questions have not been answered. What you really seem to mean is that you disagree with what others say, which is not the same thing at all. At some point you have to accept that your views are not as widely shared as you think they are and constantly repeating them won't make any difference.

 

[PaulGooch]

All you are doing is displaying your own ignorance. The %age I used was exactly that calculated in your poll. It is based on the number of people who voted. Just look at the calculations.

If you wish to recast them to suit your argument then do so - you are just kidding your self. Of the 78 people that responded. 46 (59%), said yes, 11 (14%) said no and 21 (27%) had no view on Regulation. In your "figures" you are denying the "don't knows"

Get a grip. You're counting the people who didn't vote as positive votes. The percentages i quoted above are for each question answered.

Just as an example : "As a buyer, i would like to see improvements made to the system yes/no 44/24 65% yes"

Work the maths out yourself (if you need any help in working percentages out, start a new thread, many here will be able to offer assistance). 68 people chose to vote on that question. 44 said yes, 24 said no, it doesn't matter if 35435346354364354 people took part in the survey overall, 68 chose to answer that question and the percentage of positive votes is 65%, simples.

It's clearly stated in post #1 that the percentage figures displayed by the forum poll should be ignored. The forum poll is designed for a single question, with multiple answers.

 

[jordanbasset]

I have never "attacked" anybody. My criticism is always related to the lack of substance of the "complaints" that are made. They simply do not stack up. Long on rhetoric and short on fact - and when "fact" is proposed it is almost always wrong.

By all means express your dislike or unhappiness with your own personal experoince, but do not claim that it is representatative of a general feeling.

Hits are now approaching 7000 on the original thread. Less than 1% of that number have voted in your "poll" and barely half of those have expressed even general concern. As I said earlier, the number of people who have expressed any specific concern is in single figures - and NONE of those provide any documented evidence to support their position.

You clearly have a personal problem with aspects of the way that brokerage sales are conducted - but it is not shared by others. If it is really so important to you, then you should take it up with the approriate bodies.

It is clear from these exchanges that you have no intention of accepting any explanation as to why things are as they are, nor have you managed to gain any significant support for your views, so perhaps it is a good time to forget all about it and get on with life.

Read this thread early on and decided not to bother voting even though I had a positive experience with broker. Perhaps reason is lethargy, people who have had a negative experience are more likely to vote than those who are happy with the current system. From later reading of the whole thread have now decided to vote. Do not think this poll is worthless but the very few numbers who have voted compared to the numbers who read the thread suggest it cannot be considered definitive