Boat buying & selling, your brokerage experiences

[PaulGooch]

As a result of the recent thread about brokers, contracts, buying a boat etc, it was suggested that a poll be set up.

I'd like to again reiterate that this isn't a swipe at all brokers, or even a single particular broker. Some issues arose recently that led me to question how the contracts were worded. nothing more.

The questions should be pretty straight forward, i've tried to make sure they aren't biased one way or the other. You can answer as many as you like and I've made the voting private.

Edit

Because of the way i had to structure the poll, the percentages don't make sense.

 

[rafiki_]

I have had a mixed experience.

Good with prosser marine in Galsgow.

Poor with KJ on Portsmouth

Rubbish with Walton at Brighton.

 

[PaulGooch]

I have had a mixed experience.

Good with prosser marine in Galsgow.

Poor with KJ on Portsmouth

Rubbish with Walton at Brighton.

Mine have also been mixed.

Overall good with Network Yacht Brokers Cardiff.

Very poor with Walton at Upton.

 

[Coaster]

Regulation can be imposed by government or it can be self-regulation by a trade organisation. Think carefully before asking for government imposed regulation. In my experience goverment interference with activities that I have first hand knowledge of often makes things worse.

In practice there is no utopia. There is but a short step from goverment regulation of brokers to compulsory registration of leisure craft and licences for use, both of which would no doubt assist the regulation process. A new goverment beaurocracy would come into place. And we'd have to pay for it.

 

[ColdFusion]

Edit

Because of the way i had to structure the poll, the percentages don't make sense.

I shouldn't worry too much. The percentages for each for/against will be easy to work out.

Interesting voting so far.

 

[PaulGooch]

I shouldn't worry too much. The percentages for each for/against will be easy to work out.

Interesting voting so far.

Agreed on both counts.

 

[DAKA]

...........but you cant fool all the people all the time !

Well if these were my MI figures an emergency meeting would be arranged this Friday afternoon at 1500 hrs for details of each employees unhappy customer experience, and one for Monday morning for all those who cant make Fridays meeting to collect their P45s.

I am pleased no forum member has been foolish enough to try to justify these shocking revelations, and for two reasons

They cant be justified in any industry, even the Police locking criminals away get better feed back !
And for the other obvious reason, its not all Brokers who are bad and its just a few bad apples that need weeding out, the responsible Brokers just need to take away the idea that they need to encourage change as these figure have to be affecting boat sales.
Perhaps the hours arguing with us on this forum would be better spent hounding the ABYA and BMF to get their house in order.

So lets try to see what the MI figure show, I'm sure any professional looking at these is going to immediately take his own managers replies out , so I'm going to deduct 3 from each of the positive responses.

80% of buyers and sellers want improvement


86% say that clients accounts dont provide adequate protection

45% say they have personally had a bad experience with a Broker

86% want regulation


Its a shame we only have 35 voters, perhaps you should think about inviting Scuttlebutts across to vote Paul ?
I dont think they know what mobos have had to put up with so a brief summary may be needed as introduction ?


Brokers
Please stop patting each other on your backs as you silence another thread and wake up.


edit
figures keep getting worse but here is the calcs.
19+18 vers 9+2 =80%

19 vers 3 = 86%

16 out of 35 replies =46%

20 vers 2=91%

 

[PaulGooch]

<anip>


Its a shame we only have 35 voters, perhaps you should think about inviting Scuttlebutts across to vote Paul ?
I dont think they know what mobos have had to put up with so a brief summary may be needed as introduction ?

<snip>

Yes, a link to Scuttlebutt seems a logical choice. I'll let this run for a bit longer though.

Just had a quick scan through some threads over there and they seem well versed on the subject

I'll probably give them a link to the last couple of threads over here, so they know why the poll came about.

 

[jonic]

DAKA

The Poll is laughable and dangerous as a serious piece of statistic gathering concerning client accounts

A correctly run client account IS protection.

If the broker steals from it or misuses it is the same as a solicitor stealing from his with exactly the same laws and penalties applying.

I urge everyone to Google "solicitors stealing money from client account"

Have a look at the result

Then Google "yacht brokers stealing money from client accounts"

Have a good look at the results, especially the top result, and see just how dangerous and distorting ill informed scaremongering can be in todays modern internet age.

 

[DAKA]

DAKA

The Poll is laughable and dangerous as a serious piece of static gathering concerning client accounts

A correctly run client account IS protection.

If the broker steals from it or misuses it is the same as a solicitor stealing from his with exactly the same laws and penalties applying.

I urge everyone to Google "solicitors edit money from client account"

Have a look at the result

Then Google "yacht brokers edit money from client accounts"

Have a good look at the results, especially the top result, and see just how dangerous and distorting ill informed scaremongering can be in todays modern internet age.

Jonic,

As I have said before you , Tranona , and NautiBuisienss appear very honest and it is your honesty that prevents you from being able to understand just how others less honest can abuse the system who rely on your good reputations.
In 2004 a new law was passed which makes it illegal for an Insurance Broker to 'Borrow/edit' from clients funds and to give the clients account legal status.
Will you please answer why a new law was required if there was already a Law in place .
If it is already illegal for a Yacht Broker to use the Clients account to reduce his overdraft please explain why Barclays set up an automatic transfer which swept the clients account of all funds less a £10 000 balance.
You will find my reply to your response here.

The poll is not dangerous, its your customers perception , what you choose to do about it is up to you.

 

[jonic]

DAKA

The Poll is laughable and dangerous as a serious piece of statistic gathering concerning client accounts

A correctly run client account IS protection.

If the broker steals from it or misuses it is the same as a solicitor stealing from his with exactly the same laws and penalties applying.

I urge everyone to Google "solicitors stealing money from client account"

Have a look at the result

Then Google "yacht brokers stealing money from client accounts"

Have a good look at the results, especially the top result, and see just how dangerous and distorting ill informed scaremongering can be in todays modern internet age.

If you haven't time to Google here are the links Solicitors Yacht brokers

 

[DAKA]

If you haven't time to Google here are the links Solicitors Yacht brokers

I'm not entirely sure what you are showing, sorry.

I think you are showing me pages of Solicitors who have edit money

Each one of the victims will have been compensated 100% by the Law society.


I think you then show me that there are no reported cases of yacht Brokers editing money ?

There will not be any cases , as I have been trying to tell you, it isnt illegal to 'borrow' from the marks so how could there be a case.

Unlike Solicitors and Insurance Brokers there isnt any compensation scheme in place for yacht Brokers Marks.

I have already given the above explanation here.

 

[Divemaster1]

I read all the trouble people had with brokers in the UK, so had no hesitation to buy boat from Italian broker ... Excellent service and still getting christmas cards from them...

 

[jonic]

I'm not entirely sure what you are showing, sorry.

I think you are showing me pages of Solicitors who have stolen money

Each one of the victims will have been compensated 100% by the Law society.


I think you then show me that there are no reported cases of yacht Brokers steeling money ?

There will not be any cases , as I have been trying to tell you, it isnt illegal so how could there be a case.

Unlike Solicitors and Insurance Brokers there isnt any compensation scheme in place for yacht Brokers Marks.

I have already given the above explanation here.

Yes I concede everyone is a mark, you have unmasked us. And we had managed to keep it all off Google too.

I love your bit about there being few or no cases of yachtbrokers stealing money from client accounts because it isn't illegal

PS. Top of google for a search on yacht brokers stealing.....is your thread.

 

[PaulGooch]

The Poll is laughable and dangerous as a serious piece of statistic gathering concerning client accounts

A very important and indisputable fact is that over 50% of voters feel that the protection is inadequate.

Where i largely feel the protection is inadequate, is the lack of legal requirement to setup and operate a client account. A broker can put deposits in his company account if he wants. He can also withdraw the money.

For me, the question of client accounts goes hand in hand with my belief that the industry requires regulation. Part of that regulation would (for me) require stricter controls regarding deposits and client accounts. Including, but not necessarily limited to, legal requirements :

Setup a proper client account.

All monies must only be paid directly to the client account.

Funds cannot be transferred to company account, with the exception of the commission (at conclusion of transaction). All other funds can only be transferred to the rightful trustee directly.

I'm clearly not alone in this thinking, as is evidenced by the poll and the existence of guidlines within the ABYA and the BMF.

At the end of the day though, the poll is more about gauging the levels of satisfaction and confidence of the boat buying/selling public. They have spoken clearly, whether anyone in the "industry" is listening, who knows.

 

[jonic]

I'm not entirely sure what you are showing, sorry.

I think you are showing me pages of Solicitors who have stolen money

Each one of the victims will have been compensated 100% by the Law society.


I think you then show me that there are no reported cases of yacht Brokers steeling money ?

There will not be any cases , as I have been trying to tell you, it isnt illegal to 'borrow' from the marks so how could there be a case.

Unlike Solicitors and Insurance Brokers there isnt any compensation scheme in place for yacht Brokers Marks.

I have already given the above explanation here.

Yes I concede you are all just "marks" you have unmasked us, and we had managed to keep it all hidden from Google too.

 

[DAKA]

Yes I concede you are all just "marks" you have unmasked us, and we had managed to keep it all hidden from Google too.

Please Jonic dont take my post that way.
If anyone doubts what I post I spend a little time digging in order to justify it, this only makes these threads that should be 20 long and become obsolete in a few hours last for days and draw huge attention.

I have made it clear you and the other honest Brokers are not in my sights.

My posts are about creating an environment where the dodgy yacht brokers / dealers cant hind behind your good reputation.

Out of interest may I ask why you feel the ABYA was more appropriate than the BMF for your company.

EDIT ps/

I looks like your phrase Yacht Brokers editing from clients account is at the top of google now, nothing to do with me and its not my thread anyway!
If you want to get deleting your posts I have already deleted all my posts that include quotes of yours that say steleeling but to be honest I dont think I ever accused any yacht broker of that.
its more of a bank issue in encouraging 'borrowing ' from the clients account.

 

[jonic]

A very important and indisputable fact is that over 50% of voters feel that the protection is inadequate.

Paul its 20 people.

Your poll has made it to the top of Google for yachtbrokers stealing money.

Thats how big the problem is?????

It happens so very very rarely, is covered by the laws of the land and if you use an accredited broker they have guidelines in place.

I will come with you to parliament tomorrow and ask them to make it illegal not to have a client account if you are a yacht broker.

But we may stumble a bit when they ask for evidence why self regulation and the laws of England and Scotland are not containing the problem.

Every accredited broker would have no problem if there was another law. WE DO IT ANYWAY.

 

[Nautibusiness]

Paul its 20 people.

Your poll has made it to the top of Google for yachtbrokers stealing money.

Thats how big the problem is?????

It happens so very very rarely, is covered by the laws of the land and if you use an accredited broker they have guidelines in place.

I will come with you to parliament tomorrow and ask them to make it illegal not to have a client account if you are a yacht broker.

But we may stumble a bit when they ask for evidence why self regulation and the laws of England and Scotland are not containing the problem.

Every accredited broker would have no problem if it was law. WE DO IT ANYWAY.

This is becoming more and more enjoyable and more and more of a joke.
Not loaded, guided, steered through posts and current threads in anyway. Just as enjoyable reading over on the fishing forum too!

I will also come to parliament and ask for it to be law.
We may need Daka to bring his file of filth as evidence for the need for more regulation as I can't find any myself.

Top of google! PMSL!

As for ABYA v BMF
Just my own opinion, but I see ABYA as being more suited to brokerage and the BMF terms better suited to working a dealership.
No strong basis for that.

 

[jonic]

Gentlemen

I am afraid I must now leave the field for a while. I have to go to Poole to see a boat.

Have fun.