boat buying - offers, surveys, etc.

jimmynoboat

jimmynoboat

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Same ol' same ol' I guess but, Jimmynoboat is about to become jimmysgotaboat!

Never done this before so any tips and advice on buying, surveys, moorings etc. gratefully received. Also any heads-up on possibly unforeseen costs would be helpful.

I've got it down to 4 possibles (Voyager 30, Colvic Countess 28, GK29, Beneteau first 30) but there is another if only the broker would take me seriously and agree to let me see the thing! Calm, calm ... I need something a little bigger than Nathan's Corribee - sorry.

Semi live aboard in a marina (just me with visits from non-sailing SWMBO, and kids, one of whom has dayzed kipper).

Should be excited but mostly just scared!
 
I'm amazed you haven't had any replies. Anyhow points to watch.

Always make your offer subject to survey and examine carefully the section of the contract that deals with this. Make sure you understand the time-scales involved and do not sign it until you understand it fully. The broker should take time to explain it all and make it easy to understand.

Be aware that you will be responsible for any costs incurred during the survey like haul out fees etc

Establish how any defects found at survey will be dealt with before you sign the contract and have the survey.

Ensure any deposit you pay is to the brokers client account. ( cheque or bank transfer should be to "xxx broker" client account.) Ask to see a letter from the brokers bank stating that it is in fact a client account.

Ensure the final payment is also to the client account and all the documents such as VAT and RCD (if applicable), registration and previous bills of sale are in order.

Check with the broker to confirm at what date you will need to have insurance cover in place.

Ask your surveyor for as much advice as possible if unforeseen things show up. Get him to help with any re-negotiation as well.

Both ABYA and the RYA publish useful guides to boat buying on their website.

You might want to have a look at this as well.

Best of luck and don't be scared, it can seem an intimidating process but most transactions proceed without a hitch.
 
I guess get quotes for stuff like insurance, marina fees, work/equipment required (new standing rigging, sails, electronics, safety equipment, etc.) so nothing comes as a nasty surprise. Use the forum to get recommendation for surveyor, maybe search around insurance on here as well but decide what you want to do and find a policy that suits, be up front with the insurance company about what you want to do and they normally seem to accommodate without much fuss... Good luck and enjoy...:)
 
Just in case you buy the GK 29, I should remind you of the tradition (when they were hot boats) of giving them names beginning G and K.

I remember Granny Knot, Getaway Kar, Good Knight and Grockle Knocker but there were tons more. An exception was one called Chesterton.
 
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Twister_Ken said:
Just in case you buy the GK 29, I should remind you of the tradition (when they were hot boats) of giving them names beginning G and K.

I remember Granny Knot, Getaway Kar, Good Knight and Grockle Knocker but there were tons more. An exception was one called Chesterton.
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Get Knotted!!
 
G'day Jim,

If your looking at a power boat or yacht with expensive engine/s, get them checked as well as the 'normal' survey.

Also a very good idea to add "sale subject to survey and 'sea trials'.

This means you can see if the engine, it's controls and instruments are all working as well as getting a good look at the condition of sails and how well she handles.

Hope this helps.
 
thanks

Thanks. A lot of good advice i think. Very helpful. One thing bothering me is that I need to learn to spot clues about major problems myself because it's expensive to get a boat surveyed so, you can't just get it done on all the ones you like.

Is there any way of finding out if a boat you're looking at has been recently surveyed? Apart from asking the broker I mean. Brokers I've met so far have been very nice people but I guess it would not be in their interests to tell you that someone pulled out of buying after the survey. Does that even happen?

One boat I looked at had some patches of small blisters in the hull along the waterline. In one area these seem to have been scraped out leaving holes in the gelcoat - would this happen naturally or is it possibly the result of a recent investigation?

It would be great if the actual sale price of boats was available as it is for houses. Or something like a 'glassers Guide' (?) for boats.
 
jimmynoboat said:
Is there any way of finding out if a boat you're looking at has been recently surveyed? Apart from asking the broker I mean. Brokers I've met so far have been very nice people but I guess it would not be in their interests to tell you that someone pulled out of buying after the survey. Does that even happen?
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Does what happen? People pulling out after surveys? Oh yes!

You can often see tell-tail patches where a surveyor has scraped the antifouling off - even if they've subsequently been painted over.

But: ASK THE BROKER - they aren't bound to volunteer any information to you, but they *are* bound to answer questions honestly - ask them about everything you can think of, and don't assume anything. If a previous buyer has pulled out, try and find out why.

One boat I looked at had some patches of small blisters in the hull along the waterline. In one area these seem to have been scraped out leaving holes in the gelcoat - would this happen naturally or is it possibly the result of a recent investigation?
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Almost certainly the latter.

Good luck :D

Andy
 
Firstly I dont think its very sensible to have a boat and no house with a partner who doesnt sail,she is going to get sick of visiting a relatively small boat pretty quick ,especially winter time.
I can understand the appeal of it,but she wont !
Maybe if you could afford a two cabin motor sailor you might impress her a bit more.
If I was in your position I would concentrate on a house/flat and buy a trailor sailor.If you cant afford to buy a house/flat the cost of the boat will bleed your money away !.
I have a 31 ft yacht and a trailor sailor,I prefer sailing the open boat its more exciting and I take it new somewhere each time.
Sorry to be negative but I have seen this mistake made a few times....

Regarding buying,boats are cheap just now,lots of bargains ,dont listen to guff from brokers and trust them as much as a car salesman,apologies to either on the forum :)
You can find a lot out from emails,ie last survey,any osmosis,servicing bills,how old is the engine,sails,standing rigging,electronics.New engines can easily cost £5000 grand plus.Surveys rarely cover engines in much detail,take a friendly engineer.
If the boat is in a marina or mooring ask the neighbours ,they will tell you the real story,be sure to ask a few in case you get the best friend of the seller first time.What shore power set up does it have ?
If the engine is old/original factor in the cost of a new one soon unless you are a mechanic,engineer.I bought a boat last year but didnt bother with a survey,probably unwise,but you can eliminate a lot by detailed questioning.Surveys soon eat cash up.
Lastly dont buy without sailing first.

Dont do it ,but if you do ,good luck.
Clarky
 
GK29

GK29 is a nice boat, quick, well built with good interior volume. I considered one when moving bigger from my GK24 a few years back.

One thing to check is the hull strengthening around the keel. On a number of boats this area was strengthened as the hull would flex when dried out against a wall or on the hard. It’s not a massive job and shouldn’t be a show stopper as most boats with this problem have probably been “done”. It is worth asking the question/investigating. A google on this will probably turn up more info.

Whatever you go for good luck, take your time and don’t feel pressured into buying a particular boat – there are plenty around!
 
jimmynoboat said:
Thanks. A lot of good advice i think. Very helpful. One thing bothering me is that I need to learn to spot clues about major problems myself because it's expensive to get a boat surveyed so, you can't just get it done on all the ones you like.

(?) for boats.
Click to expand...

Suggestions:

1. Sit in each saloon and think of the hours you will be listening to the radio etc etc Which boat is the most comfortable for you? Impressions of comfort are important - especially for your purposes.

2. Make an estimate of what major (big ticket) work you will have to undertake in the next 5 years: sails, upholstery, engine rebuild, new rigging etc; you will form a view on each boat and draw up a list. These are the deal breakers - remember, the vendor has already done his list, that's why his selling on these costs to you! Oh, and regard all the electronics as unwarrantable and liable to fail the day you take possession - pay nothing for them.

3. If you can, get to talk to the owner. If you don't like him, don't buy his boat. It's as simple as that - genuine people tend to be honest (ref point 2 above). Hustlers and jokers are just that.

4. A surveyor is highly unlikely to tell you anything you havn't already spotted. And he won't warrant the rig or the engine! You're on your own there. So, irregularities in the bottom are warnings - but you know that! Big chunks out of the rudder or keel are the same. Rust on the keel bolts! Cracks in the chainplate fixings. Don't buy an engine that is covered in goop - good owners look after the beast! One other test that will help you - look in the lockers and feel if the furntiure is parting from the hull - rough edges of torn GRP bindings to the fingers. This is not good news!

All boats sail; some are wetter than others, some have kindlier sheeting arrangements - lines to the cockpit rather than mast. etc etc. It's a cat's cradle. Stacks of folks come on this site wanting to know, like you, how to get the perfect mix - the truth is there's no such thing.

Good luck, and take 24 hrs to think over any big decision. Even if you junk the rest, you know at least that bit is good advice!

PWG
 
Thanks again

Thanks again everyone. This is very helpful info. I've another to look at over the weekend so, I'll see if I can put some of the advice and suggestions into action. Don't worry Clarky, nothing would get SWMBO out of the bricks and mortar and there is no intention of doing so. I'm not sure where you got that idea :)

The fear is subsiding a little now but you know, I am beginning to form the opinion that some of these brokers, nice as they are, may not be entirely trustworthy! ;)

P.s. Oh! and, if a broker casually suggests that a survey isn't strictly necessary, should I turn and run? ... two of them have! but 'barely perceptible, easy to miss'.
 
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jimmynoboat said:
The fear is subsiding a little now but you know, I am beginning to form the opinion that some of these brokers, nice as they are, may not be entirely trustworthy! ;)

P.s. Oh! and, if a broker casually suggests that a survey isn't strictly necessary, should I turn and run? ... two of them have! but 'barely perceptible, easy to miss'.
Click to expand...

Jimmy I am a broker and a long distance/liveaboard sailor.

ALWAYS have a survey. No broker should be telling you otherwise, unless perhaps there is a very recent survey available, but even then I would still advise my clients to have a survey. The survey is then for you, and you alone. You may well be told in good faith not to have one, but there may be things wrong that the broker and owner are completely unaware of.

For example I was working early in my brokerage career at the offices of a main dealer. They had a boat I wished to buy, it had come on before I joined. I knew the broker, he knew the boat as he had sold it to the client, the client knew the boat was A1. I inspected the boat and it looked good to me. But I still had a survey, and the surveyor found a hairline crack in a very inaccessible place that was structural damage and a material defect. I rejected the boat. (Imagine how that went down in the office).

There are some very good brokers out there. Try to find one who is accredited to ABYA or the BMF and an experienced sailor in his own right. You want someone who sees themselves as sailor first broker second.

Avoid anyone who is vague about paperwork or the boats history.

A very good book is this one by Don Casey. Its easy to understand and will give a good idea of what to look for, and what the surveyor is going to inspect. It may help you decided which boats are worth putting forward to survey stage.

Good luck and PM me if you want me to look over any details of boats you are interested in. I have helped a number of forumites like that in the past.
 
Learning curve

Since the OP I've seen 4 more boats and I think I'm getting the hang of it. I think you do start to spot things for yourself and, as people have said, you get a feel for the people doing the selling. Today, however, I viewed a piece of junk which looked good on paper but the 'few little jobs' which needed to be done before going back in the water looked considerably bigger to me and the boat was generally tatty and neglected. That was frustrating because if it had been made clearer both the broker and myself could have saved a morning (not to mention a considerable amount of petrol).

I decided that if there's nothing obviously wrong but it still feels wrong I'll walk away. Only 2 of the boats I've seen have left me feeling that they will be okay. One was just too small for SWMBO and the other was not ... I feel an offer coming on! There's also one which needed work bit it's the kind of thing I can do and won't stop me sailing it so, I guess I can call that a backup!
 
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