Boat Buyers - What puts you off

[PaulGooch]

Thanks Steve,
That's an interesting comment and raises one of the myths about steel boats. Maintenance!
The blue hull paint is the original two-pack from 1986 and is still good. The superstructure has been repainted three times in her life and this was only a rub down and one top-coat to freshen her up. the bottom epoxy is original and has only needed touching up where physically damaged so actual maintenance costs are negligible. However my comment about 'maintained regardless of cost' in which I was actually referring to the continual updating of equipment and not the actual structure could very well be misconstrued so I'll certainly take that on-board and rephrase it. I think I will also provide an indication of the general ongoing maintenance that is required in the inventory.

That is well worth putting in the advert. As is a rewording regarding the maintenance. While you're re-wording :

"the bottom epoxy is original and has only needed touching up where physically damaged"

"the bottom epoxy is original and has only needed the very odd minor scuff touching up"

The point about the asking price keeps being raised but if people are visiting the boat and not making offers I don't see how lowering the price is going to help.

People generally don't like making offers and certainly don't like making big ones. Someone might think they like it, but would like it to be a couple of grand cheaper, but they wouldn't want to risk offending by offering 10k less than the asking price. Me, i don't mind kicking a seller where it hurts

 

[PCUK]

Thanks Paul, More good stuff to take on-board!

 

[fireball]

Just had a look at the advert on rightboat.com ... er ... what can I say?

Pictures are wrong.
IMO the second picture (with blurred surrounds) makes it look like a placstic toy
The detail photos look like they were taken with a standard lens - a fisheye (or extra wide angle) will get more of the boat in.
There's no photos of the living space - just odd closeups ... there's no layout.
Description on rightboat is very poorly done - in both layout and content. Engine size is there - but no mention of the LOA of the vessel (unless you're supposed to guess she's 38' ?)

Ah - found her on yachtworld .. 40' then .... same pics ... but "full spec" is anything but!

We sold through SD Marine - Hamble based - and they did superb specs and pictures on the yw site ... take a look at a few for a comparison.

 

[Bojangles]

If the problem is that once potential buyers have viewed, they lose interest I think the problem may be in the presentation.

An earlier post mentioned it, I agree that you should get to the boat before any viewer and make sure everything is tip top. The boat needs to smell nice and fresh and look as if a buyer could just bring their stuff on and sail away. Soft furnishings should be brought up to date and compliment the rest of the boat.

With regards to price, I think if you can afford to reduce it, even slightly it may be worthwhile, you may just appear in some new buyers bracket.

Looks an excellent boat, good luck..

 

[PaulGooch]

Ouch !! I just dug those two adverts out and had a proper look. Mate, they are garbage. You need a new broker. One who knows how to write an ad. The Right Boat ad is barely readable, don't they know about the full stop key and the space bar ?

The marine industry have a lot to learn about advertising, IMO.

 

[PCUK]

Thanks Guys,
I am now revamping the whole approach and with all the feedback from here it should make a difference. Particular thanks to those who taken the time to find her on different sites and provided feedback. But every comment has been helpful and we'll start again with a fresh outlook.

Paul, your latest mail came in after I had posted this one.
I've just looked at those listings for the first time and they are not good. As part of the revamp I am going to rewrite everything myself and just get the brokers to paste it in. I've also drawn a layout plan to include with the pics which should help.

 

[PaulGooch]

Thanks Guys,
I am now revamping the whole approach and with all the feedback from here it should make a difference. Particular thanks to those who taken the time to find her on different sites and provided feedback. But every comment has been helpful and we'll start again with a fresh outlook.

Paul, your latest mail came in after I had posted this one.
I've just looked at those listings for the first time and they are not good. As part of the revamp I am going to rewrite everything myself and just get the brokers to paste it in. I've also drawn a layout plan to include with the pics which should help.

Good stuff.

Detail all of the inventory, rather than things like "full Raymarine electronics". What's full ?

Also meant to say, the boat does look very nice from the limited exterior pics.

 

[jonjo]

Ok I will play, as a yachtsman who knows very little about mobos my thought processes could reflect those of the first time boat buyer.

First the photo portfolio:

Hmm nice, she seems like a mini super yacht, like the panama holes forward.

Looks purposeful powered up at sea and able to cope with the rough stuff, but I wonder if it is a converted ex pilot launch?

Photo-2: Why did the owner spend money on commissioning a detailed 1/32nd scale model? Is it a one-off? Is the owner some crank who likes to invent things?

Eeek orange artificial teak deck, I wonder if the light or camera setting is making it glow more than it does in reality? Still at least it shows the owner is spending money and guess means less green stuff to scrub off.

Hmmm nice clean metal underwater, I wonder how old that photo is, when was the repaint? I will have to reread the dense broker text 10 times to extract the details.

Oh god the interior photos, cold and dismal perhaps the flash did not fire? I don't get the layout, oh no foam backed vinyl ceiling panels I bet the glue is about to give up, but at least things are accessible for the surveyor. Strewth look at the fabrics I bet they are originals from 1975, oh its an 86 boat. Do I really want all those bridge dials intruding into G&T time? What does the sitting room really look like, how wide are the beds, does it have an onboard shower?

Beechcraft

Sounds american, where was it built? Was it a popular design, how many were built?

1986

That is a bit old for a mobo, probably explains why the owner is skimping on the interior photos because it is looking its age.

steel hull and superstructure and marine grade aluminium flybridge.

It sounds like a floating battery, probably turning to electrolytic dust as I read this. Oh hang on it is just the flybridge, maybe this is normal practice? Gives me a bad feeling.

12 knots max 10 knots cruisingWing engine with Volvo folding propeller for zero drag BMC 1.5 30hp

That's slow but probably economical, how much juice does it consume? Hang on no displacement in the broker ad.

giving 5 knots maximum and 4 knots cruising. Also provides twin engine manoeuvring.

Could the second engine get me home if the main conks out at sea? But it all sounds a bit cranky. Would the small engine be just right for that trip down the French canals?

Dek-King decking professionally installed 2006New electric fridge

I like it that the owner knows the date of the all the new stuff on board.

diesel hob and oven installed in 2007

OMG I can still remember the horrible smell of the liveaboard narrow boat I visited 15 years ago with a diesel hob. Old boats are always so poorly ventilated and the photos give no clue about deck hatches.

Skanti dual station VHFIce makerElectric drinks cooler

I don't want to pay for such techno tat. Oh hang on it is not a dual station Japanese ice maker, this broker is really ****. I wonder if the owner has listed with another? In fact this ad is so bad I doubt the boat is seriously sale, he's probably listing it to placate the wife.

the entire vessel is in excellent conditionMaintained regardless of cost by her professional marine journalist owner

So why does'nt the owner get a matey down to do proper interior photos unless he has something to hide? And why is the typesetting of the broker ad so awful?

Somerset

That's the one before Devon I think, sounds like a long way. Is Britstol in Somerset oh no that's Avon. Probably a 2 hour long haul down the M5, will I need my waders to view her or is she in a marina?

Oh the broker is in Hamble, a viewing would be tricky to setup! Ok move on, next internet page. Hmmm look at the lovely backlit ambiance of this Sealine saloon and the blue LED lit stairs. Great she is out the water at a Hamble marina, I will temp the swmbo with lunch at the Jolly Sailor, let's phone the broker.

 

[fireball]

Excellent ... I think I'd echo PaulG's 'you need a different broker' view though ...
If the current broker can't be arsed to give her a decent presentation on the web are they actively trying to sell her?
We moved brokers after a winter of discontent ... new broker had her for just over a month before getting the right buyer ...

We asked both brokers about what we could do to sell her - ie what work should we undertake - and other than keep her clean and tidy there was nothing to do (but then she was a very "clean" boat having been well looked after by the previous owners too ...)

 

[tony345]

To be honest, I'm usually put of by the Broker. Many seem to know little about the boats they are selling and are often reluctant to offer/arrange any sort of test ride or demonstrate any facilities.

Now - I know that circumstances are different with a boat - but if I were buying a car I'd expect to be able to sit in it, try the controls, start the engine and take it for a spin as a matter of course. I'd also expect to see the MOT and other paperwork.

The best way to sell a boat in my view is to somehow get prospective purchasers out on the water and demonstrate it. That way they go away (hopefully) with a wow factor and have much more information on which to make their mind up than a quick look around the interior - often on boats which are out of the water.

 

[PCUK]

Your right Tony, but I don't want to be doing trips round the bay for every Tom, dick etc. The usual thing is for the customer to place a 10% refundable deposit and then take the sea trial followed by survey if required. The deposit shows they're not just fender kickers. But until I can get the punters down I've got to concentrate on phase one of pulling them in.

 

[Sundowner Portofino]

Gosh, I looked at the details of Pershila when she first came on the market as we were thinking of changing boat. From memory you started selling privately.

We did not take it any further as;

a- thought she would sell quickly
b- had loads of niggly little jobs on our boat to get her up to selling speck

Those jobs are now done and we are going to look at selling at the end of the season, so if she is still around maybe we will have another think.

From a buyers perspective, the photo on Chanel Yacht Brokers site is not as good as the picture above. It always makes me want to scream and shake brokers by the lapels when I see dull photos, with grey sky on the hard. I do not know a single boat owner that does not have a cracking summer photo of their own boat in action, so for gods sake use it, you are selling a lifestyle. It is a bit like selling a house without blue sky in the photo, big no no

Also from a buyers view as she has been on the market for a while, people might start asking themselves 'what is wrong with her' and therefore not come and view.

Best of luck

 

[PaulGooch]

Your right Tony, but I don't want to be doing trips round the bay for every Tom, dick etc. The usual thing is for the customer to place a 10% refundable deposit and then take the sea trial followed by survey if required. The deposit shows they're not just fender kickers. But until I can get the punters down I've got to concentrate on phase one of pulling them in.

When looking for our current boat, we got it down to a shortlist of two. We looked at one in Cardiff which was with a broker, but the vendor met us at the boat and was quick to offer a spin around Cardiff Bay, we were impressed with how the boat performed and handles and were even more interested. We called to view the 2nd on the way home, as it had a different engine to the one in Cardiff, i was keen to take it for a spin and would have made a decision to purchase one of the two boats by the end of the day. The snotty brokeress wouldn't even let me have the engine key, never mind a spin up the river, until i'd :

Made an offer.
Offer accepted by vendor.
10% deposit paid.

Apparently to prevent fender kickers. I assured her i hadn't driven four hours for a joy ride, but she was adamant. The following morning an offer was made and accepted on the Cardiff boat, the other one was still for sale a year later.

I'd get to the boat before them, make sure everything is spotless and sweet smelling and make sure you take some tea, coffee, milk etc. Give them a cuppa, show them around the boat and tell them if they are seriously interested they are more than welcome to a quick spin. You might waste half an hour apiece on three or four trials, on the other hand, the first trial-er might be so impressed with how she goes, he buys her.

IMO.

 

[Deleted User YDKXO]

Your right Tony, but I don't want to be doing trips round the bay for every Tom, dick etc. The usual thing is for the customer to place a 10% refundable deposit and then take the sea trial followed by survey if required. The deposit shows they're not just fender kickers. But until I can get the punters down I've got to concentrate on phase one of pulling them in.

When you've got a slightly unusual boat, taking prospective buyers out for a trip before they make an offer is a good way to sell although, yes, you may be wasting your time and fuel.
I once considered buying a Taiwanese SD boat. I really didn't know whether I'd like the way the boat went in terms of seakeeping, comfort, noise etc so I asked the broker for a seatrial before making an offer and even offered to pay for the fuel. The broker flatly refused until I'd made an offer and put down a deposit. I pointed out that it was necessary for me to have a seatrial before I'd know whether I wanted to make an offer and, if I did, where to pitch that offer. He still refused and I walked away.
The problem is that as a buyer, by putting down a deposit you are entering into a contract and then rejection of the boat is subject to the terms of the contract. OK, if the boat doesn't make the advertised speed during a seatrial, you can reject but if it rolls too much for your comfort or the exhaust is very noisy, I'm not sure you can reject it so thats why many buyers, including me, tend to play it safe and only offer on boats which we pretty much know are going to suit us.
Don't be averse to taking prospective buyers out but obviously try and ascertain how serious they are

 

[PaulGooch]

When you've got a slightly unusual boat, taking prospective buyers out for a trip before they make an offer is a good way to sell although, yes, you may be wasting your time and fuel.
I once considered buying a Taiwanese SD boat. I really didn't know whether I'd like the way the boat went in terms of seakeeping, comfort, noise etc so I asked the broker for a seatrial before making an offer and even offered to pay for the fuel. The broker flatly refused until I'd made an offer and put down a deposit. I pointed out that it was necessary for me to have a seatrial before I'd know whether I wanted to make an offer and, if I did, where to pitch that offer. He still refused and I walked away.
The problem is that as a buyer, by putting down a deposit you are entering into a contract and then rejection of the boat is subject to the terms of the contract. OK, if the boat doesn't make the advertised speed during a seatrial, you can reject but if it rolls too much for your comfort or the exhaust is very noisy, I'm not sure you can reject it so thats why many buyers, including me, tend to play it safe and only offer on boats which we pretty much know are going to suit us.
Don't be averse to taking prospective buyers out but obviously try and ascertain how serious they are

Must have been typing at the same time Mike

 

[hlb]

Think the first thing to look at are carpets and upholstery, yes they are not expencive and we mostly replace carpets each year. But, I looked round scotland for a long time and dismissed any boat with a sign of ripped seating.

 

[PCUK]

I think the point about taking people out is a good one and worth a rethink on my part. I think I'll also instruct the local broker to tell people who seem interested that they can have short trip is required. I have never minded starting the engines. The upholstery and carpets are all good. Not new but not ripped or dirty. May not be to everyones taste but probably to some. She always smells fresh (even after six months closed up) as there is no mould or damp. I try to meet every buyer but it is not always possible.

Sundowner, if you're not too far away you would be welcome to come and have a looked round. You could then at least report back to the forum on how she measures up to the description!


There is so much solid information coming in I wonder if this should not now be in its own permanent Forum to help others in the future!

 

[PCUK]

Here's the original pic before I turned it into a "plastic model". Is that better? I like the shot as it shows the flybridge and deck layout quite nicely.

 

[PaulGooch]

Here's the original pic before I turned it into a "plastic model". Is that better? I like the shot as it shows the flybridge and deck layout quite nicely.

I think that shows a decent overall view of the boat and as you say, it does nicely show the flybridge layout.

 

[pheran]

I wouldn't consider having her hundreds of miles away as I need to keep her up to scratch and I wouldn't trust a brokers monkey to maintain her properly.

What an interesting comment! Sorry you seem to have had such bad experience with brokers (and their monkeys!)

Must agree with some others here - yours is a nice boat in the wrong place. I feel sure it would sell in Holland and the distance needn't be a problem. Many of the sales harbours are actually indoors or under cover so the boats stay beautifully clean, dry inside and out of the weather. Nothing for you to do -seemples! Have a look at this example here http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x_MzbxI_zUs

As far as price is concerned, and based on my experience of Dutch boat sales, I wouldn't have thought your price was overly ambitious, not over there anyway. And the Dutch market is far more active of course.

ps no connection with HWO, the brokers featured in that YouTube clip other than as a very satisfied customer (and of their mechanical maintenance people next door)