Boat Building Courses

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jonte

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Hi All

I'm brand new to the forum so sincerely hope I'm not repeating a question that's been posed at least several times previously.

So here goes.

Does anybody know what proportion of new boats sold in the UK are 'classic (wooden)' type boats'?

If not, does anyone know what demand is like for new traditionally built classic boats?

Is it reliable to say that most classic boats afloat today are restoration projects undertaken by private owners?

I suppose the reason I ask is that whilst trawling 'the net' I've noticed that there are colleges offering accredited boat building courses, however, they seem rather expensive and I was wondering what is the liklihood of gaining employment to justify such considerable outlay?

Hope somebody can advise.

Best wishes to all and thanks for the contributions. I'm hooked!!

Jonte
 
Very very few new boats are wooden, today.

Whilst many boats are repaired by their owners, many others, of all materials, are repaired by professional boatyards.

Since slapping glass fibre and polyester into a mould is an unskilled occupation, whilst wooden boatbuilding is a highly skilled one, the demand for trained boatbuilders is reasonably high, both in yards that carry out repairs and in yards that fit out grp hulls, because if you can build and fit out a wooden boat you can take a GRP moulding and make a boat out of it.

I think I am right in saying that at least one training centre claims never to have failed to place someone who finished the course.
 
Hi Jonte,

Well, I for one am a product of one of those boatbuilding schools. I went to the IBTC in 2002 for the 46 week course. I had reasonable wood-butchery skills before, and some experience of simple repairs to boats.

Since then I've worked with wooden boats all the time, and in several different places. I'd say the courses give you reasonable to good hand skills when matched at a professional level. They also give a good basic knowledge on how boats are constructed.

however, as working in the real world has shown me, there are many different ways to build a boat. Most of what we do is repair or restoration, and that is all reverse engineering. Take it carefully apart to find out how it was put together, repair the damage, insert some double loop learning to ensure the same thing doesn't happen again, then rebuild. The colleges can't really teach this. I think 30 years in the business is the only way to learn.

As far as the market goes, it's never been great! With things as they are at the moment, and with peoples current confidence in the economy, you have to be aware that luxury items are not high on many people priority list. But as mentioned above, many owners will do most of their maintenance and some repairs themselves. Some people will go through the college courses just to be able to maintain their own boats. In some ways, the wooden boat restoration industry is beyond most economic concerns, because in many cases, the sort of owner who can employ a yard for a month or three is not really that fussed about the economy as they are wealthy enough to be beyond those concerns. However, they are fairly few and far between. There are really very few new boats being built, just a few around the country each year.

THe problem at present is that few companies have the ability to take on an apprentice, and few people are able to live on an apprentices wage. Yes, the courses are expensive, but At the end of one year you may be able to get a job with a realistic wage. Balance that against maybe 5 years of a low wage as an aprentice, then it might balance out, or even come down on the side of the college course.

There is work out there, and I'd hate to dissuade you from something you want to do. Just be prepared for some hard times occasionally!

sorry, a long reply, and probably mostly waffle! /forums/images/graemlins/blush.gif But do get in touch if you want to discuss it more.
 
I studied Yacht & boatbuilding at Falmouth back in 77-79 i learnt a lot but when i left and went to work in the boat industry very quickly realised i knew sod all!
30 years of working in the industry have taught me a lot not least is that the industry is now on its knees. I attended the first wooden boat show at Greenwich and it seemed then that the wooden boat or even custom industry had a chance, the RCD put paid to that with very few builders left from the ones who exibited there.
Unfortunately you cannot eat karma or make it pay the bills!
I would not want to be starting out now!
 
Wow!!!

Quite a mixed response.

Thank you Minn, Big Southern Jesse and Muddundee for your prompt responses and for sharing your knowledge/experience of the industry with me.

I've no trade and absolutely no hands on experience with tools of any type apart from the ubiquitous hammer, saw etc hamfistedly used for the odd DIY project (okay then, maybe once or twice!) but I'm in awe of the likes of Nick 'Getting Afloat' Gates and would love to have a bash at making or restoring something myself - if only to prove I am hopeless at everything.

Would love to attend college like Big Southern but I simply couldn't justify the outlay. Therefore, I've come up with a cheapo plan which frankly is the only real option for me. This consists of attending a carpentry course on which to hone my skills and familiarise myself with the correct uses of said tools, then to read around the subject of boat building e.g. lofting and scarphing and then see how I fare with a small project, say a coble or even a small Nobby. Please feel free to laugh!!

Incidentally, as most of the wealth of this country is situated in and around the South East, is it correct to assume therefore that the demand for boat building skills is concentrated on the South and South East coasts ? I live in the North West (Merseyside) but I'm not sure whether there is a demand for such skills here - there is a proliferation of Morecambe Bay Prawners locally but to my knowledge most, if not all, were restored by their owners.

I'd be interested to hear from anyone who knows the answer to this and please feel free to air your views about my strategy.

Anyway, thanks once again all.

Jonte
 
Hi Jonte

I am a current student with the IBTC and agree with everything BSJ says.

Fortunately as a retired old git I am doing it just for the joy of working on my MAB. I also did the first surveyors course which was fun.

The course is not cheap, plus you need to add accommodation and living expenses, travel AND loss of earnings. I reckon this costs, in total, most 'mature' students something like £40k for the 47 weeks. A not inconsiderable sum.

I would not like to be a young lad leaving this course and trying to find a job. Although better than apprentice rates, IMO, the pay scales are pretty low. Add to that the fact that you may well be doing repetitious production work and it is not the nirvana it may first appear to be. Many end up in building restoration which is at least a little more aesthetic.

I think your plan is as good as any. Can't help with any local advice other than getting yourself known with the Nobby fraternity. The offer of free labour - just to learn things - during the winter maintenance period may lead to other things.

Good luck and, like BSJ, I am happy to answer any more questions.

BTW, don't worry about skill levels. I was crap, still am, but I love it! /forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif
 
Hi Anteak

Thanks for the generous input and valuable advice.

Your humility is both appreciated and encouraging.

Having 'knocked around' one or two boat yards over the years I've met several ol' gits, consequently, I'm fairly proficient in recognising one a mile off and you, sir, are anything but !!!

Thanks also for the kind offer of further advice.

Best wishes,

Jonte
 
Hey Jonte.

If you can do the course, and a bit of boat work around your normal job, then that is a great way in. I did the course when I was 22, I was living nearby at my parents, and had no commitments fnancially, so it wasn't a huge hardship.

the handskills gained from a carpentry course will always come in handy, so that is a good start. Then either start with a simple new build or repair a dinghy or daysailer. Especially with a repair, you might be able to get some interesting work, and finish with a nice little dinghy complete with rig for a few hundred pounds. As suggested above, get in touch with as many local people as possible, and offer your services as helper/gofer/tea boy, whatever it takes, to get some experience and see others work. After I left the college I took myself first to the Thames, then the Essex mud, and then to the South Coast, treating each like a placement to learn about the type of local boats and the methods for restoration.

And although the South East might have more of the money, most of it is spent on plastic tubs. Yes, there are 3 or 4 thousand yachts in Chichester Harbour, but it doesn't take long to know virtually every wooden boat. There's very few compared to the plastics. You'll find just as many around the Essex coast, or the West Country, or many other places. So I wouldn't worry about that too much.

Anyway. keep in touch, and let us know how it all goes forward.

Jess.
 
Hi again Jess

A most comprehensive and apt response indeed. Thank you.

I can see that you're also very keen and you deserve every success.

Just a bit of background for you: I'm due to retire from the public sector in November and am looking for something to keep me busy.

Learning a skill is desirable and if I could make some pocket money from it then happy days !!!

I'd dearly like to attend an accredited course like you, Jess, but frankly I just cannot justify the expense to my wife who, to be fair, is more than tolerant with my many interests.

Nevertheless, I'm nothing if not determined and will pursue the carpentry course etc.

Will promise to keep you posted.

Kind regards,

Jonte
 
[ QUOTE ]
I'd dearly like to attend an accredited course like you, Jess, but frankly I just cannot justify the expense to my wife who, to be fair, is more than tolerant with my many interests.



[/ QUOTE ]

When I met my wife, I was teaching dinghy sailing and windsurfing, and living in a caravan. She was very keen to encourage anything that might move me a little closer to civilisation! /forums/images/graemlins/blush.gif /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif

The one thing that no one has added so far is this:

I love doing this job! It changes every week, there is always something new to learn, and I don't expect that ot change for a good thirty years. And there is huge satisfaction in keeping boats like these on the water. Even if it's your own. Enjoy it! /forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif
 
There are 1 week courses at places like Lyme Regis to give you a start? I know there is one in wooden boat retoration and gives you a (very) limited taster of a number of techniques.
 
Quote:

I love doing this job! It changes every week, there is always something new to learn, and I don't expect that ot change for a good thirty years. And there is huge satisfaction in keeping boats like these on the water. Even if it's your own. Enjoy it!

Jess,

I'm sold !!!

There's no turning back now.

Thanks again for your encouraging contribution.

Best wishes,

Jonte.
 
[ QUOTE ]
There are 1 week courses at places like Lyme Regis to give you a start? I know there is one in wooden boat retoration and gives you a (very) limited taster of a number of techniques.

[/ QUOTE ]
I did the one-week wooden boat restoration course at Lyme last summer and it was thoroughly worthwhile. As Scarboroughsloop implies it's only scratching the surface but I learned a lot in a week.
 
The other side of the coin.....

Traditional boatbuilding and restoration is hard work. Its dusty, dirty and noisey, You work with modern resins and paints, and traditional goos which are all life shortening. The power tools and machines you use are all capable of finger shortening. If you want to live past 70 you wear a dust mask and ear defenders ALL DAY.
After 21 years of doing it I still enjoy it, but at the age of 40 come home so knackered I can bearly stand. If you wish to be commercially viable and complete your work on budget you have to WORK!
There are plenty of boatbuilders who think that work is ambling back to get a tool 'I have forgotten', then doing a few hours, before its time for tea.They don't last long in the competitve market of the real world.
I have met a few early retirers who have done boatbuilding courses, set themselves up, and later confided in me that if they knew it would be so hard, they would have stayed with the desk job.
Talking of desk jobs, anyone know of any?!!

I don't wamt to pee on your fire, but there are a few to many rose tinted specs being handed out......
 
Hi Nick.
I will agree with all of that.
Now at 71 this year after a life starting off with 6 years steam / Gas turbine building Apprenticeship,
6 years Merchant Navy Eng, 44 years Elect / Mech / small / large, Building Maintenance, Small boat engineering, and still at restoring my own Gaffer.
If all your joints and bits don't hurt at the end of the day then they haven't been worked properly. /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif
Cheers David.
 
Oh dear, Seanick..................bad day at the office ?!!!!!!

I've no wish to sound offensive and I'm sincerely most grateful for any honest feedback, positive or negative, but I noticed you make mention of a 'competitive market' in your post and it's these words whch most strike a chord with me. Now, I could be wide of the mark here and if so I apologise in advance, but do I detect from your rhetoric an air of anxiety about what might be perceived as over saturation of a struggling niche market ?

And possibly you have due cause to worry.

Perhaps you are an employee of an existing business experiencing a fall in orders and now facing the real possibility of having to subject its staff to reduced hours or worse (Heaven forbid!!!)?

Or perhaps you are even the proprietor of one such business?

Either way, you have my sincerest sympathies, sir.

However, may I assure you that my interest is essentially in gaining the skills of the boat builder; it is not imperative that I make a living from it.

My goal is simply to produce something; something of value; something of beauty; something which my current role doesn't fulfil.

And I suppose that's really the cruxt of the matter; I seek merely self-fulfillment, not business.

Still, it would be a bonus to do so; just not essential.

Finally, I might not have experienced some of the unpleasantries you write of, however, we all have unpleasant sides to our occupations. Difficult and demanding as I've no doubt it is at times, I'll wager in the main you go to bed when it's dark and get up when it's light - a luxury I'm afraid not always afforded me in my line of work. Believe you me, I could go on.

And, when it comes to a choice between a whining plane and a whining, self serving, self promoting, sycophantic senior to whom I find myself pandering in the interests of 'its' 'career' (why do people have to have careers these days instead of jobs ?!!!??), I'll choose the finger-shortening one every time !!!!!

Take it from me: stay well clear of desk jobs !!!!!!!!

Jonte (cynic)
 
Jonte, it always worth clicking on someones name before replying to their post. It gives you their bio. Filling in your own also helps others before they comment. Saves embarrassment.
A
Good luck with a course.
 
Hello Downwind

Thanks for the instruction - not really au fait with the workings of the internet.Thanks also for the encouragement.

Not sure I follow the embarassment bit though - perhaps I've overlooked something ?

Best wishes,

Jonte
 
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