boat brands - prejudice or reality

[dunedin]

There are techniques used by dinghy sailors using the waves to work their way into the wind, but the average cruising boat won’t be responsive enough to gain from such micro-management, even if it may help to keep the principles in mind.

The best dinghy racers tend to use body weight to steer the boat upwind through waves, avoiding tiller use as rudder causes drag.
In a cruising yacht definitely will benefit from using helm in cycle with the waves to go upwind, rather than keeping course dead straight.

 

[Baggywrinkle]

Crikey, some A+++ top quality stalking going on here. Top marks.

You can thank googles Gemini AI .... I was looking for pros and cons of various old boats, structural problems etc. and then following the links ... geem should be pleased, it means his blog is seen as a relevant source by Googles search and AI Tech .... didn't realise it was his boat at first. The internet remembers everything

 

[Norman_E]

I think you are talking about the boating equivalent of the classic car enthusiast, appreciating something for what it was back in its heyday - and that's OK. But I for one wouldn't use a classic car (or a classic boat) for a long trip with many hours aboard. There are other options these days.

When I see an 80s boat, particularly one that was a legend back in the day, I do feel nostalgia, and I watch happy people sitting cheek-to-jowl in narrow cockpits, with a tarp thrown over the boom to shade them from the sun. I see them gingerly handing shopping bags up over the guard rails from a dinghy, or clambering up a ladder after a swim - it reminds me of my childhood. My family did all that in the 70s & 80s (apart from the swimming-it was Scotland) - we had no other choice, the swim platform hadn't been invented and boats were what they were. It doesn't mean I have to relive it today - there are choices, things have changed. Part of the reason I have so many friends who come sailing is because of the boat. There is space, it is light and airy, we don't sleep in the saloon and the 3 cabins are proper doubles. There's no drama or gymnastics using the dinghy, water access is easy for SUPs, windsurfers and swimming, the cockpit is big enough for us all to lounge around with a table we can all eat from .... to me it is great to take family and friends boating, something most of them simply wouldn't do if it was not comfortable.

Back in the early 80s, it was Moody that was the butt of the "floating caravan" jokes. The demise of Angus Primrose on a Moody 33 only cemented that reputation, and it still persists with my father to this day. My dads generation who formed the "old boat fraternity" back then have simply passed the baton on to the next generation, repeating the behaviour of the past, with AWBs now the floating caravans instead of Moodys. So owners of old heavy, chopped mat clunkers can look down on these modern floating IKEA loft apartments - and feel good about themselves. There is a very definite element of snobbery mixed I suspect, with the knowledge that actually, there's a lot about modern boats to like.

People adjust how they "feel" to help them get through life, being happy with one's choices is essential to avoid stress, disappointment, envy, burnout. You can't go through life feeling you've made the wrong choices, feeling sorry for yourself, or being envious of others - it's not healthy. So our brains adjust to reassure us that we have made the right choices, and we cling to reasons supporting those choices, logical or not. It's normal.

I understood it all from a very early age ..... I remember going aboard our friends Moody, with its spacious saloon, and sumptuous upholstery. As kids we were in awe of the "big boat feel" ... as was my mum. My dad was forced to agree through gritted teeth, (we'd have had one in a heartbeat if we could have afforded it) but there we were, sitting in the same anchorage, having fought our way through the same shitty weather, and we knew that when we set off the following day, we'd watch the "caravan" show us a clean pair of heels while my dad sat in the cockpit waxing lyrical about why his older long keeled boat had a proper pedigree and would "keep us safe" in a blow ... all the usual stuff as the rain dribbled down the back of our necks, cranked over at 45°, wondering when I'd be sent to the foredeck to hank on a smaller foresail. He had some valid points. Many boats from that era had cockpit floor hatches leading into the engine and bowels of the boat - breach them and the boat sank ..... similar with anchor lockers which drained into the bilge. I realised that it is seamanship and crew competency that matters above all else - assuming the boat has a minimum level of capability. The boats they thought were "blue water legends" back then are way down the list today. Who would choose a 32ft boat for a circumnavigation unless they were budget constrained adventurers? No-one .... but the Contessa 32 was THE blue water idol of that generation, primarily due to the '79 Fasnet.

I have often wondered, what do people actually use these days for a trip across the pond? The only data is the ARC so I found someone who had crunched the numbers on ARC data from 2020 to 2025 ... here are the results, which boats by Make and Model show up most often on the ARC start line?

1st Place with 10 ARC entries each.
Clipper 60
Bavaria Cruiser 51
Beneteau First 47,7

2nd Place with 9 ARC entries.
Oyster 56

3rd Place with 8 ARC entries.
Amel Super Marramu

4th Place with 7 ARC entries.
Dufour Gib Sea 51

5th place with 6 ARC entries each.
Jeanneau Sun Odyssey 519
Beneteau Clipper 473
Grand Soleil 50
Hallberg-Rassy 44

6th Place with 5 ARC entries each.
Hallberg-Rassy 54
Bavaria 44

7th Place with 4 ARC entries.
Dufour 56

8th Place with 3 ARC entries each.
Jeanneau Sun Odyssey 45,2
Hanse 411
Hanse 445
Beneteau Oceanis 43

.... so these are the choices ARC sailors are making to head across the Atlantic. There are a lot of production boats in there and nobody seems to be dying from their choice of boat.

An interesting list, which confirms my view that the build standards of BenJenBav went downhill in the early 2000s. The last group is headed by the boat I owned, the Jeanneau 45.2. Its successor, the 45 does not even appear. The reason seems clear to me. The 45.2 and earlier 45.1 were designed to be strong, ocean capable boats, with a masthead rig, thick hull layup, (mine measured 16mm where I replaced hull fittings) and a hull shape that pre-dated the trend towards over wide flat stern sections. True, it had a bolted on keel and a spade rudder, but the former had a double row of very substantial bolts, and the latter a big diameter stainless shaft. A couple I knew crossed the Atlantic in one and were happy with it, but much less pleased when they delivered a mid 2000s Jeanneau.