Bluewater vs offshore ???

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cmedsailor

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Sorry if this questions sounds silly to most of you but I am trying to learn the English terminology (English is not my native language).
What is the difference between "bluewater" and "offshore"? Am I correct to believe that both words mean the same? A boat built to cross oceans?
Thanks

PS: Anybody also knows any site that shows the terminology around a sailing boat (you know, pictures and names...)
 
Offshore means passage making within a predictable 48 hour weather forecast period. Bluewater means longterm self sufficiency and being able to cope with the extreme weather that turbulent topical weather systems can throw at you while away from harbour.

Then to complete the picture there is "high latitude" voyaging.
 
I always assumed (for no reason whatsoever) that 'offshore' meant out of sight of land and 'bluewater' meant crossing oceans.
 
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Like many made up terms in the English language they do not necessarily have a definitive meaning acceptable to everybody.

There is a sort of heirarchy that is based on the relationship of the bit of water you are on with land. This heirarchy is also used to symbolise the relative demands of sailing (weather, seastate, distance from a safe haven etc.). So you get Inland, Estuary (of rivers leading to sea), Coastal, Off Shore (getting out of sight of land) and Ocean (which covers everything else, but sometimes defined as moving off the continental shelf). Blue Water is a romanticised version of Ocean, although the "Bluest" water is perhaps found in shallow waters such as around coral reefs and sandy shallow water!

The word then gets used for all sorts of other associations - particularly to describe yachts built to withstand any kind of weather. This is despite the fact that (from all accounts) most "ocean" sailing is in benign conditions compared with, say a gale in the English Channel!

Such contradictions are what makes the English language so rich as a means of comunicating ideas and experiences - as well as providing a basis for arguments! (Sorry, debates)
 
jonjo4 said:
Offshore means passage making within a predictable 48 hour weather forecast period. Bluewater means longterm self sufficiency and being able to cope with the extreme weather that turbulent topical weather systems can throw at you while away from harbour.
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Utter rubbish. Offshore is just that - in sea beyond that where coastal effects dominate - and a fair definition is beyond sight of land.

Bluewater certainly means long-term cruising, usually done in warmer climates. But lots of bluewater cruisers rarely if ever go to a harbour - but neither do they risk areas where there is a risk of tropical storms.

"Within a predictable 48 hour weather forecast" eh? Where the heck does this come from? You can get a forecast for anywhere, anytime with satellite/ssb communications.

I supose a "topical" (sic) storm is where someone makes fool comments about current affairs...
 
tcm said:
Nope, normal time. Shouldn't you be doing some work, hm?
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Work? Yes good advice, I don't want to get stuck in this wrecked country for ever.

I managed to kick the YBW habit a couple of months ago but a new subscription and the Contessa v. Bav article was the trigger for Jonjo4.

So its time to leave this mad little British online enclave once again, 48 hours is more than enough. Strange how folks concluded I was personally responsible for the decline in Scuttlebutt discussion standards when I had not posted for two months.

BTW You made a complete arse of yourself in the "utter rubbish" post above, any other experienced yachtsman would comprehend my post.
 
tcm said:
Utter rubbish. Offshore is just that - in sea beyond that where coastal effects dominate - and a fair definition is beyond sight of land.

Bluewater certainly means long-term cruising, usually done in warmer climates. But lots of bluewater cruisers rarely if ever go to a harbour - but neither do they risk areas where there is a risk of tropical storms.

"Within a predictable 48 hour weather forecast" eh? Where the heck does this come from? You can get a forecast for anywhere, anytime with satellite/ssb communications.

I supose a "topical" (sic) storm is where someone makes fool comments about current affairs...
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I was just about to agree with this post Before I realised it was from TCM and so I feel obliged to disagree.

Cheers, Brian.
 
I meant that...you need to work on your written English, and of course your appalling recent behaviour hereabouts.

You should apologise for your comments in the other thread regarding the Chandlers.

Oh, and i comprehended your post - it was just wrong, see? And I don't consider your couple of coastal weekends per year in the very *cheapest* sub-AWB 30 footer makes you that "experienced", really. This isn't about me, nor about you. But it can be, I suppose....
 
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I sympathise with the OP's dilemma: I have always considered offshore to be that which is beyond coastal sailing, you can't go home at the end of the day, you have to be self sufficient and capable of handling all conditions. Offshore implies you are at sea, you're on your own to cope with whatever arises. Bluewater, I always thought, was simply a more romantic way of describing offshore - wild blue yonder etc.
Unfortunately the bureaucrats of Europe have made a distinction between Offshore and something they call Ocean. Ocean is, apparantly, tougher than merely Offshore. This distinction is used in categorising boats under the RCD. You can have a boat capable of offshore sailing and one capable of ocean cruising. I'm buggered if I can understand the difference, but there you are. Bluewater is Ocean, offshore is merely not coastal. I think.
 
cmedsailor said:
Sorry if this questions sounds silly to most of you but I am trying to learn the English terminology (English is not my native language).
What is the difference between "bluewater" and "offshore"? Am I correct to believe that both words mean the same? A boat built to cross oceans?
Thanks

PS: Anybody also knows any site that shows the terminology around a sailing boat (you know, pictures and names...)
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There is no hard and fast rule, but generally offshore is used to mean out of sight of land and bluewater to mean extended voyaging across oceans, and usually, but not always, in tropical waters.

Recently Dufour started naming their "Bluewater" range Grand Large which translates to open water.
 
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flobbergob said:
I was just about to agree with this post Before I realised it was from TCM
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Well since you disagree with me, let me explain.

Inshore:

Falmouth to Helford because it is sheltered from two sides, you are not more than 1 hour form a harbour entrance and you are not going to get struck by an unexpected force 10 storm.

Coastal:

Salcombe to Plymouth because the total passage is going to take 4-5 hours, sheltered water is not more than 2 hours away and the weather is unlikely to deviate by more than 10 kts over forecast and crew fatigue / supplies won't be an issue if the wind picks up.

Offshore:

Portsmouth to Cherbourg? Just counts as offshore I suppose because you loose sight of land for a few hours and you better be prepared to deal with a force 7 no matter what the forecast.

Falmouth to SW Ireland. Upper end of offshore to me. You might not sight land for 24 hours, gotta maintain a pencil plot because you cannot wing it following a total electrical failure. 48 hour weather forecast reliability is still pretty good at the point of departure assuming you can look at a synoptic and read the weather.

If it all goes wrong, you're still within a 12 hour evac to top notch medical care.

Blue Water:

Falmouth to NW Spain? 2 to 3 days from shelter so defo blue water to me but probably a longish offshore passage to a rufty tufty delivery skipper.

Falmouth to the Azures. Blue water to most I suspect. You need a boat and skipper ready to deal with a force 10 because no forecast available at departure can provide a reliable max wind forecast for the whole voyage.
 
The plot thickens ...

All blue water sailing is offshore, but not all offshore sailing is blue water (or bluewater). As has been said above, bluewater has connotations of tradewind cruising, water makers, steering vanes, beards and ladders up masts, but this isn't part of any definition. Bluewater seems to refer only to cruising, whereas offshore is often used to describe racing (sometimes when it isn't really offshore at all).
 
woah!

jonjo4 said:
Blue Water:

Falmouth to NW Spain? 2 to 3 days from shelter so defo blue water to me but probably a longish offshore passage to a rufty tufty delivery skipper.

Falmouth to the Azures. Blue water to most I suspect. You need a boat and skipper ready to deal with a force 10 because no forecast available at departure can provide a reliable max wind forecast for the whole voyage.
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Er no. We're gonna have to stop you there a moment. The islands to which you refer are the "Azores". Not the "Azures". Typo's are allowed - not utter lack of knowledge of basic geography, jeez.

To most people, *none* of your examples are "Blue Water". Partly cos erm, the water thereabouts isn't very blue, see? Jonic's definition of an inherently vague phrase is worth noting.

Meanwhile, we're still awaiting a climbdown re the Chandler's thread, please.
 
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tcm said:
And I don't consider your couple of coastal weekends per year in the very *cheapest* sub-AWB 30 footer makes you that "experienced", really.
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Hmm where did that come from? In the other thread I only insulted early retired rich gits with a personal net worth of £ +1/2 million and who are sailing around the world in blue water boats. Your comment has insulted 100 times as many.

As to my sailing, it is done on a 35ft 5.8 ton narrow beam rocket with a 2.2m draft and a rig that would drive your mobile cocktail lounge quite well.

Pretty sure my sailing experience puts me in the upper quartile of English Channel skippers.
 
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