Blue, red or white enseigns ?

E

Ex Libris

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Hi all,
I heard a very passionated debate last Sunday in the bar of the Yacht Club, but I must confess I missed most of it.
I'm originally French, living in Hong Kong for a few years, and my English is good enough to have lived around the world for 20 years working for an American company (well..ok..forget about what I just said about my linguistic skills then...). Since I live in Hong Kong, I have so far managed to learn most of the English terms to sail on English boats or race on my own with an English speaking crew, but... what the bl**y hell was this noise about ? Blue, red of white enseign ? Is there another fascinating British Navy tradition I have missed in Hornblower about this ?
Thanks to all.
Cheers from Hong Kong
Ex Libris
 
Ex Libris said:
Hi all,
I heard a very passionated debate last Sunday in the bar of the Yacht Club, but I must confess I missed most of it.
I'm originally French, living in Hong Kong for a few years, and my English is good enough to have lived around the world for 20 years working for an American company (well..ok..forget about what I just said about my linguistic skills then...). Since I live in Hong Kong, I have so far managed to learn most of the English terms to sail on English boats or race on my own with an English speaking crew, but... what the bl**y hell was this noise about ? Blue, red of white enseign ? Is there another fascinating British Navy tradition I have missed in Hornblower about this ?
Thanks to all.
Cheers from Hong Kong
Ex Libris
Click to expand...

Traditionally the Royal Navy had three ensigns denoting various fleets and squadrons. A ship under the auspices of an Admiral of the Red wore a Red Ensign etc.

Then the Navy chose to use the White Ensign only and British Merchant shipping got the Red. Various Government boats (like customs) got the blue.

Some yacht clubs are granted warrants to use defaced Red and/or Blue ensigns and owners can use these on their boats. But the rules are long and complicated as to when you can and can't use your special ensign.
 
The right to wear the ensign is determined by the state of registration of the ship. So the boat must be British to wear any of them. Red is the most common, but as said some people are entitled (usually on the basis of membership of a club or organisation) to wear a blue one, usually "defaced" with an emblem representing the organisation. White ensigns are reserved for Royal Navy ships and members of the Royal Yacht Squadron. You will also find variations of the red and blue ensigns signifying registration in many other countries that were or are British territories and who have kept the same registration principles as the UK.

Quite simple really, but don't ask whether the different colours convey different meanings otherwise you will unleash all kinds of views that will keep the thread going for a couple of weeks before folks get bored.

You can avoid all this by doing a search for previous threads on the subject.
 
White ensigns Royal Navy,Royal Yacht Squadron..AND..Royal Yacht(Assuming we had one).The fact that the Greek is senior member of the RYS is not relevant.
Blue ensigns,as above you need a warrant(available through your yacht club)but it can only be flown when YOU are on board or in the vicininty,otherwise the yacht must fly the red ensign.
The same applies for the white.
Most people entitled to fly the white and blue also tend to abide by basic flag etiquette.ie drop it in harbour at night,dip to a senior flag.
Hope that makes it all very clear!!
 
Bombay Yacht Club

Totally off tread,and I can't think what brought it to mind but has anyone else ever been to the Bombay Yacht Club ,just behind the Gate of India,beside the Taj Hotel.I had the most hilarious evening there a few years ago(being a member of the RORC I granted access for I think 5 rupees) and sat at the bar talking to various members who all turned out to be "social members".
No one knew about sailing but the trophies,paintings and photos of it's hey day were all still there.
Just a bit of nostalgia..
 
doug748 said:
White = Social class 1

Blue = Social class 2

Red = Social class 3

Goes a long way to explaining what all the huffing and puffing is about.
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Not really because some people will fly all three, on diffeerent boats, for example a naval officer will fly white when in command of a ship on the navy list, then fly the blue on his yacht as a member of RNSA the fly the red whilst sailing his mates boat. His social staus stays the same but the circumstances change. This awarding social class to esigns is nothing but inverted snobbery
 
maxi77 said:
Not really because some people will fly all three, on diffeerent boats, for example a naval officer will fly white when in command of a ship on the navy list, then fly the blue on his yacht as a member of RNSA the fly the red whilst sailing his mates boat. His social staus stays the same but the circumstances change. This awarding social class to esigns is nothing but inverted snobbery
Click to expand...

When it isn't good old fashioned class warfare!
 
White Ensign - Royal Navy (including RNR), Royal Yacht (when we can afford a new one), Royal marines (Landing craft etc) and used ashore in RN and RM bases.

Blue Ensign - Royal Fleet Auxiliary, Coastguard, Police, Border Agency and other government institutions.

Red Ensign - All other British registered vessels.

The Secretary of state for defense has given permission for certain organisations to fly special ensigns - The White ensign flown by the RYS and the blue ensigns are worn by yachts whose owners belong to yacht clubs/associations whom have been granted a warrant to fly the blue ensign (normally with "Royal" in their title, but there are exceptions such as the Cruising Association). May of these ensigns are "Defaced" which means that the club motif is printed in the "Fly" (the blue part) of the ensign.

Some clubs may also fly a defaced red ensign. Again a warrant needed.

Rules are quite clear for the use of special ensigns as follows -

1 - The person to whom the warrant has been issued must be on board (or nearby when in port).
2- The warrant must be kept on board
3- The Burgee belonging to the club who issued the warrant must be flown.
4. Yacht must not be used for commercial purposes.
 
For the first time in 40 years we put our red flag on the back of the boat for a few days (not nights) during the Queen's Jubilee celebrations, but I doubt if it will come out again. It felt rather pretentious, and it gets tangled with the self-steering vane.
 
In e context of banter at say the Royal HKYC next to the Aberdeen marina club from memory the following should be noted: (my opinion)

Red Ensign = normal joe bloggs sailor
Defaced Red Ensign = normal sailor member of RVYC

Blue Ensign = you dont want to be a normal sailor and really have secret desires to fly the White Ensign. So to fly a blue you might well rub shoulders with people who do get to fly the white.

White Ensign - the flag of the Royal Navy. Unless you work for the Navy on board one of their ships you have to be a well connected and ideally a rich person to fly the White Ensign but of course only if you are a member of the RYS and even then you have to apply for it.

Honestly i dont think the White Ensign should be flown on anything Private below say 100 ft... Too many ****ty old Swan's floating around who have the warrant to fly it and we should all look up to the White Ensign not down to it :-)


Just my view
 
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Great ! Thanks to all for the clarifications. Very interesting.
So, shall I make friend with the J111 racing the local regattas fying the white enseign or is one of these "I'm better than you anyways" guy ?...
My boat is registered in Hong Kong, so I fly the Hong Kong flag (should be the Chinese flag actually, but...).
Anyways, I am always very interested in naval history and traditions, so thanks again for your time !
The RHKYC is on the North coast of HK, while Aberdeen Boat Club is on the south coast.
Cheers

(and for those already bored by the subject, why bother typing it...just move on..)
 
Oldhairy said:
Serious thread drift here.
A couple of years ago I came across a boat flying a " union flag " with a wide white all round border. Could find no reference in the above link. Is this a proper flag, or a home invented job?
Click to expand...
.

If it fluttered in the wind then it's a proper flag. :rolleyes:
 
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