Nick_H
Well-Known Member
i'm trying to work out your avatar, is it a surfer in the foreground, and boat punching through the wave behind? If so, cool pic, can you post a bigger version?
Bl**dy Lobster Pots !!
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BlueSkyNick
Well-Known Member
[ QUOTE ]
Solent's radios are very patch sometimes - the weather broadcasts can be unreadable even in Southampton Water.
[/ QUOTE ]I phoned up and told them about this back in June. They still havent fixed it - obviously need to do some radio checks from time to time ! /forums/images/graemlins/wink.gif
Solent's radios are very patch sometimes - the weather broadcasts can be unreadable even in Southampton Water.
[/ QUOTE ]I phoned up and told them about this back in June. They still havent fixed it - obviously need to do some radio checks from time to time ! /forums/images/graemlins/wink.gif
BlueSkyNick
Well-Known Member
[ QUOTE ]
.... we were 20 miles south of st Albans.
[/ QUOTE ] Was the offending pot anchored out there or adrift? Seems a long way off to go and check regularly. I wonder if there is a shoal of some sort where all the lobbies hang out.
.... we were 20 miles south of st Albans.
[/ QUOTE ] Was the offending pot anchored out there or adrift? Seems a long way off to go and check regularly. I wonder if there is a shoal of some sort where all the lobbies hang out.
DAKA
Well-Known Member
I was on a mates boat off Chichester, we herd a mayday which I now assume was yours.
Went for late lunch at Gunwharf Quay, took swmbo shopping, lugged loads of shoes back , off Portsmouth on the way back we herd them ask you to 'let a smoke off now'.......if that was still your call it took ages.
You had our sympathy, I have been stuck on a pot twice in the past, very unpleasant, one did £5k of damage to an outdrive (drift net line).
Was there anything you could have carried on board to get you out of the situation ?
Went for late lunch at Gunwharf Quay, took swmbo shopping, lugged loads of shoes back , off Portsmouth on the way back we herd them ask you to 'let a smoke off now'.......if that was still your call it took ages.
You had our sympathy, I have been stuck on a pot twice in the past, very unpleasant, one did £5k of damage to an outdrive (drift net line).
Was there anything you could have carried on board to get you out of the situation ?
Dave_Snelson
Well-Known Member
Its a big boat punching its way through extreme weather and in the foreground is a surfer. I copied it and blew it up a bit. Agree - its a cool picture!
wp1234
Well-Known Member
[ QUOTE ]
The reason they use crap markers is so that their pots are harder to find and therefore not as easily robbed.
[/ QUOTE ]
Better to be robbed than have their tether rope and lemonade bottle cut off i guess.
The reason they use crap markers is so that their pots are harder to find and therefore not as easily robbed.
[/ QUOTE ]
Better to be robbed than have their tether rope and lemonade bottle cut off i guess.
PilotWolf
Well-Known Member
[ QUOTE ]
quote]I still think that the best solution if you see badly marked pots is to cut the floats off and let the remainder go to the bottom. I appreciate that it is not a popular solution with a few on here but done often enough discourages badly positioned / poorly marked pots.
[/ QUOTE ]
Agree with you entirely I have very little sympathy for a twit that tethers a pot to a lemonade bottle and leaves someone else in the S**t – if it not marked with a yellow / red buoy then as far as I’m concerned it shouldn’t be there.
[/ QUOTE ]
1. Criminal Damage.
2. The pot carries on fishing until it breaks up - commonly known as ghost fishing.
3. Assume you never eat crab/lobster?
PW.
quote]I still think that the best solution if you see badly marked pots is to cut the floats off and let the remainder go to the bottom. I appreciate that it is not a popular solution with a few on here but done often enough discourages badly positioned / poorly marked pots.
[/ QUOTE ]
Agree with you entirely I have very little sympathy for a twit that tethers a pot to a lemonade bottle and leaves someone else in the S**t – if it not marked with a yellow / red buoy then as far as I’m concerned it shouldn’t be there.
[/ QUOTE ]
1. Criminal Damage.
2. The pot carries on fishing until it breaks up - commonly known as ghost fishing.
3. Assume you never eat crab/lobster?
PW.
wp1234
Well-Known Member
[/ QUOTE ]
1. Criminal Damage.
2. The pot carries on fishing until it breaks up - commonly known as ghost fishing.
3. Assume you never eat crab/lobster?
PW.
[/ QUOTE ]
1- By who? take it you mean by the person who intentionally laid the trap for my props , p bracket etc etc
2 - Same result for the crab or lobster I guess i.e dead !
3 - And the argument is…. ??
1. Criminal Damage.
2. The pot carries on fishing until it breaks up - commonly known as ghost fishing.
3. Assume you never eat crab/lobster?
PW.
[/ QUOTE ]
1- By who? take it you mean by the person who intentionally laid the trap for my props , p bracket etc etc
2 - Same result for the crab or lobster I guess i.e dead !
3 - And the argument is…. ??
PilotWolf
Well-Known Member
1. No you - wilful damage of someone else's property. No the trap was for shellfish - unless of course that is you?
2. So you happily accept the destruction of our fish/shellfish stocks?
3. Well if you eat it then I m afraid you either need to keep a better look out/fit prop cutters/catch it yourself because the nice lobster/crab you eat was probably caught by one of these guys possibly struggling to make a living.
I guess if you hit a tree trunk/whale/etc it's natures fault instead of you not looking where you re going?
PW.
2. So you happily accept the destruction of our fish/shellfish stocks?
3. Well if you eat it then I m afraid you either need to keep a better look out/fit prop cutters/catch it yourself because the nice lobster/crab you eat was probably caught by one of these guys possibly struggling to make a living.
I guess if you hit a tree trunk/whale/etc it's natures fault instead of you not looking where you re going?
PW.
Duster
N/A
1) I do not see it as criminal damage, as these are probably unlicensed pots set by doleys. I see it as a public service - removing a hazard to navigation.
2) Unfortunate but the effect is the same as if you cut the markers off with your prop because you can not see them.
3) Irrelevant - buy from a responsible licensed fisherman who you know marks his pots properly.
Regards mikej
2) Unfortunate but the effect is the same as if you cut the markers off with your prop because you can not see them.
3) Irrelevant - buy from a responsible licensed fisherman who you know marks his pots properly.
Regards mikej
Wiggo
Well-Known Member
[ QUOTE ]
I guess if you hit a tree trunk/whale/etc it's natures fault instead of you not looking where you re going?
PW.
[/ QUOTE ]
Not really. As far as I am aware, tree trunks and whales are not placed there by fishermen, and there are no laws requiring them to be marked as it's very difficult to bring a successful prosecution against Mother Nature. Fishermen blatantly ignoring harbour by-laws is another matter.
I guess if you hit a tree trunk/whale/etc it's natures fault instead of you not looking where you re going?
PW.
[/ QUOTE ]
Not really. As far as I am aware, tree trunks and whales are not placed there by fishermen, and there are no laws requiring them to be marked as it's very difficult to bring a successful prosecution against Mother Nature. Fishermen blatantly ignoring harbour by-laws is another matter.
nonitoo
Well-Known Member
[ QUOTE ]
1) I do not see it as criminal damage, as these are probably unlicensed pots set by doleys. I see it as a public service - removing a hazard to navigation.
2) Unfortunate but the effect is the same as if you cut the markers off with your prop because you can not see them.
3) Irrelevant - buy from a responsible licensed fisherman who you know marks his pots properly.
Regards mikej
[/ QUOTE ]
As regards No.1 note the definition of Criminal Damage
---Criminal damage, a term used interchangeably with
vandalism, refers to crimes where any person without
lawful excuse intentionally or recklessly destroys or
damages any property belonging to another.---
What you see or don't see is irrelevant - you cannot be judge and jury much as you might like to.
2. If you do it accidentally then this is a defence because you did not do it intentionally or recklessly. A court would have to prove intent/recklessness.
Between you and me I am as exasperated as you regarding poorly marked fishing markers but setting out to deliberately cut them off is not a reasonable act.
Tom
1) I do not see it as criminal damage, as these are probably unlicensed pots set by doleys. I see it as a public service - removing a hazard to navigation.
2) Unfortunate but the effect is the same as if you cut the markers off with your prop because you can not see them.
3) Irrelevant - buy from a responsible licensed fisherman who you know marks his pots properly.
Regards mikej
[/ QUOTE ]
As regards No.1 note the definition of Criminal Damage
---Criminal damage, a term used interchangeably with
vandalism, refers to crimes where any person without
lawful excuse intentionally or recklessly destroys or
damages any property belonging to another.---
What you see or don't see is irrelevant - you cannot be judge and jury much as you might like to.
2. If you do it accidentally then this is a defence because you did not do it intentionally or recklessly. A court would have to prove intent/recklessness.
Between you and me I am as exasperated as you regarding poorly marked fishing markers but setting out to deliberately cut them off is not a reasonable act.
Tom
BlueSkyNick
Well-Known Member
I'd be interested to see any court case brought by a fisherman for this wilfull damage. He would need to be pretty confident that not only were his pots correctly marked, but also that his tax affairs are all in order too.
I am a great supporter of the fishing industry and enjoy my seafood, but I see little excuse for leaving very poorly marked pots in a busy leisure boating area.
I am a great supporter of the fishing industry and enjoy my seafood, but I see little excuse for leaving very poorly marked pots in a busy leisure boating area.
Duster
N/A
Lawfull excuse - removing an unlicensed hazard to navigation. No worse that removing an illegal rabbit snare (which I also frequently do)
It is most unlikely that these bums would bring a prosecution as they are partimers/doleys without twopence to scratch their backside and could not afford a court case. Proffessionals would mark their gear properly.
Most people just say "someone should do something about badly marked pots" I prefer a bit of direct action.
Regards mikej
It is most unlikely that these bums would bring a prosecution as they are partimers/doleys without twopence to scratch their backside and could not afford a court case. Proffessionals would mark their gear properly.
Most people just say "someone should do something about badly marked pots" I prefer a bit of direct action.
Regards mikej
PilotWolf
Well-Known Member
1. There are as far as I recall NO laws regarding marking of pots (but see below) - there is an MCA advisory leaflet. There maybe by-laws locally regarding the placing of pots - why not direct your anger at those harbour authorities that happily take your mooring fees for not enforcing the by law? Where did you get your authority as judge, jury and then enforcer to illegally remove these 'markers'?
2. Sorry but back to my remark that a better look out will help avoid them. Do you not feel that you have ANY responsibility to miss them?!
3. Most fishermen are not allowed to legally sell direct to the public thanks to DEFRA/MAFA requirement to be a registered buyer/seller. How do you know how a certain fisherman marks his pots?
There are usually local fisheries by-laws regarding the number of pots (and any required markings - usually the PLN or permit number on the marker) and number of shell fish you are allowed to take from the sea (in addition to the EU laws) - these are usually fairly well policed by the local Sea Fisheries Committees.
Cases of gear damage do get to court - I (and others) were called as witnesses - it was settled out of court on one occasion and the other damages were awarded against the culprit. - IRC totalling over £10k with costs included.
Nick - Have you thought that maybe it was a potting area before the leisure boaters invaded?
And why should fishermans' tax affairs be any more out of order than yours, mine, a back street garage, etc.?
W.
2. Sorry but back to my remark that a better look out will help avoid them. Do you not feel that you have ANY responsibility to miss them?!
3. Most fishermen are not allowed to legally sell direct to the public thanks to DEFRA/MAFA requirement to be a registered buyer/seller. How do you know how a certain fisherman marks his pots?
There are usually local fisheries by-laws regarding the number of pots (and any required markings - usually the PLN or permit number on the marker) and number of shell fish you are allowed to take from the sea (in addition to the EU laws) - these are usually fairly well policed by the local Sea Fisheries Committees.
Cases of gear damage do get to court - I (and others) were called as witnesses - it was settled out of court on one occasion and the other damages were awarded against the culprit. - IRC totalling over £10k with costs included.
Nick - Have you thought that maybe it was a potting area before the leisure boaters invaded?
And why should fishermans' tax affairs be any more out of order than yours, mine, a back street garage, etc.?
W.
nonitoo
Well-Known Member
Unlicensed hazard to navigation - you know this for a fact ? You know that it is unlicensed ? You are in a position to decide what is a hazard and what is not ?
You know that it is not one of the perfectly legal pots put down by any member of the public ? Up to a certain number it is perfectly legal to set pots.
Surely your assumption that all these pots are put down by a certain sociological group is rather far fetched to say the least.
Nope, criminal damage it remains and I have no doubt that you would, and should, be prosecuted if you wilfully damage an others property.
(If you don't like my boat, does that give you the right to damage it - same logic ?)
I must assume you are taking the mickey - surely )
Tom
You know that it is not one of the perfectly legal pots put down by any member of the public ? Up to a certain number it is perfectly legal to set pots.
Surely your assumption that all these pots are put down by a certain sociological group is rather far fetched to say the least.
Nope, criminal damage it remains and I have no doubt that you would, and should, be prosecuted if you wilfully damage an others property.
(If you don't like my boat, does that give you the right to damage it - same logic ?)
I must assume you are taking the mickey - surely )
Tom
wp1234
Well-Known Member
[ QUOTE ]
1. No you - wilful damage of someone else's property. No the trap was for shellfish - unless of course that is you?
2. So you happily accept the destruction of our fish/shellfish stocks?
3. Well if you eat it then I m afraid you either need to keep a better look out/fit prop cutters/catch it yourself because the nice lobster/crab you eat was probably caught by one of these guys possibly struggling to make a living.
I guess if you hit a tree trunk/whale/etc it's natures fault instead of you not looking where you re going?
PW.
[/ QUOTE ]
Oh my God !!!!!
Life’s far to interesting and short – you win .
/forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif
1. No you - wilful damage of someone else's property. No the trap was for shellfish - unless of course that is you?
2. So you happily accept the destruction of our fish/shellfish stocks?
3. Well if you eat it then I m afraid you either need to keep a better look out/fit prop cutters/catch it yourself because the nice lobster/crab you eat was probably caught by one of these guys possibly struggling to make a living.
I guess if you hit a tree trunk/whale/etc it's natures fault instead of you not looking where you re going?
PW.
[/ QUOTE ]
Oh my God !!!!!
Life’s far to interesting and short – you win .
/forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif
BlueSkyNick
Well-Known Member
You clearly have a different circumstances in Yorkshire than we have on the south coast.
History, law and economics are irrlevenent when the placing and marking of pots is downright irresponsible - simple as that.
I could have three lookouts on deck, who still wouldnt see a black 5litre plastic oil container at the main entrance to the river, on a dark night.
When there is an MAIB inquiry rather than a court case for willful damage, we might see some proper action.
History, law and economics are irrlevenent when the placing and marking of pots is downright irresponsible - simple as that.
I could have three lookouts on deck, who still wouldnt see a black 5litre plastic oil container at the main entrance to the river, on a dark night.
When there is an MAIB inquiry rather than a court case for willful damage, we might see some proper action.
PilotWolf
Well-Known Member
Actually I spent most of my sea going time over the last 20+ years along the south coast... Only the last year and a bit have I been up here.
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History, law and economics are irrlevenent when the placing and marking of pots is downright irresponsible - simple as that.
[/ QUOTE ]
That's clearly not the case or this discussion wouldn't come up every couple of months.
MAIB are not there to judge but to investigate. Other recent high profile cases have also shown that there findings may not stand up a court of law...
PW
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History, law and economics are irrlevenent when the placing and marking of pots is downright irresponsible - simple as that.
[/ QUOTE ]
That's clearly not the case or this discussion wouldn't come up every couple of months.
MAIB are not there to judge but to investigate. Other recent high profile cases have also shown that there findings may not stand up a court of law...
PW
wp1234
Well-Known Member
[ QUOTE ]
MAIB are not there to judge but to investigate. Other recent high profile cases have also shown that there findings may not stand up a court of law...
[/ QUOTE ]
The MAIB reports are not written with liability in mind - true, but having been involved in MAIB investigations I can assure you that their findings are very often used in court and carry a lot of weight for obvious reasons.
Why am I talking about the MAIB all of a sudden - putting badly marked pots down is still very very Bl**dy stupid - end of !!!
MAIB are not there to judge but to investigate. Other recent high profile cases have also shown that there findings may not stand up a court of law...
[/ QUOTE ]
The MAIB reports are not written with liability in mind - true, but having been involved in MAIB investigations I can assure you that their findings are very often used in court and carry a lot of weight for obvious reasons.
Why am I talking about the MAIB all of a sudden - putting badly marked pots down is still very very Bl**dy stupid - end of !!!