Biscay. Please dispel the hype.

haydude said:
The worst leg is from Baiona to Cascais. Stay well out in waters deeper than 150m. Anything else and you will end up in a dangerous minefield of endless fishing gear.

Also you may be tempted to pass between the Peniche peninsula and the islands out of it (there is a lighthouse on each of them). DON'T. The swell gets into steep breakers. Clear those islands well to the West.
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Sorry to disagree on a couple of points but - The nets are rarely a problem with no need to stay far out as they're nearly all bottom weighted and few marker buoys have floating pick-up lines to run over.

The Berlingos islands off Peniche are a nature reserve and dive centre with very clear waters. In settled weather, well worth anchoring there for a day or two.

We've found Biscay a bit of a bore in that twice, we've spent more time on engine than sail. Done La Coruna but prefer LaRochelle to Gijon (40hrs @ 6kts) as both the French west coast and northern Spain have lots to see.
 
Not sure where you're leaving from, but we did Troon - La Corunna for the milleneum.
The idea was to stay away from France ( because in those days it was rumoured that they were sticklers for correct paperwork and everything...) so we planned to go 10deg west and then straight down.
For us, that meant pausing in the south of Ireland to check the weather window and take on supplies.
In fact we went down averaging 9.5deg west, nae problems.
My only advice would be to make your landfall in the Spanish Rias rather than La Corunna, as it is a pain to get back into "shift mode " again (for the watch systems) - having been ashore to the fleshpots and tapas bars- to go round Finisterre, which just seemed to sit there looking at us for hours on end!
Once you're round Finisterre, the North of Spain is worth a look if you have time, then it's a long plain coast down Portugal.
Try using you nose to navigate as you go down the coast - you'll know what I mean if you do it - magic - especially when you get down to Trafalgar and suddenly Africa becomes visible. Please do it - you'll thank me in the end!
 
[/My only advice would be to make your landfall in the Spanish Rias rather than La Corunna, as it is a pain to get back into "shift mode " again (for the watch systems) - having been ashore to the fleshpots and tapas bars- to go round Finisterre, which just seemed to sit there looking at us for hours on end!
Once you're round Finisterre, the North of Spain is worth a look if you have time, then it's a long plain coast down Portugal.
I]

+ 1 and also you can get stuck in port for days on end waiting for westerlies to abate or change.

Can understand if people want to specifically visit Corunna, but I prefer the rias, portasin, and then onwards.
 
I have done it a couple of times, leaving from Camaret [being careful to get the tide right in the Raz de Sein ] after a wait for a good 3 day forecast and had enjoyable sails. Stayed 5 miles east side of the ' motorway' which made checking our navigation easy [. No GPS you see ] and arriving at La Coruna.

Entering La Coruna is a bit special as you identify the landmarks including the Tower of Hercules lighthouse you think of the other sailors who have made the same landfall from Romans, through Drake and Nelson the Hiscocks etc etc. Like I said it's a bit special.

Mind you three weeks after we crossed the first time other cruisng boats got hammered with boats being abandoned and some limping in with decks swept clean and dodgers in shreds.
 
GrahamM376 said:
Sorry to disagree on a couple of points but - The nets are rarely a problem with no need to stay far out as they're nearly all bottom weighted and few marker buoys have floating pick-up lines to run over.
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Clearly you do not have experience of long passages with night sailing.
 
nickfabbri said:
Tuesday looms long and large and i've set about once again passage planning to get to the med. We have always intended to drop the mast and go through the French canals. However someone asked me yesterday why we werent " doing Biscay". I have always discounted it as I hear horror stories all over the place about how bad it can get.

So, can we please shed some light on this for me please? If you pick your moment to cross from North to SOuth, look at the incoming weather from the Atlantic and stay a long way ( how far exactly?) from the coast, is it that bad?

Many thanks.
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I do it, just go way off shore and keep clear of the continental shelf.Think we were 400 miles west of france.Trawlers are a pain at night.
 
When we did it we left Falmouth on June 4th on the back of a cold front and had a record 24 hour sail in distance terms. 24 hours later the wind was going round in circles at 5 knots and we tried to sail any heading with south in it. 48 hours later, approaching Finisterre, the wind was 50 knots, a big ketch ran off with drogues, a Cat hove to with both engines and a local fishing boat sank with the loss of all hands.

Coming back there was little wind in Biscay so we sailed out into to the Atlantic to pick up a cold front. Top speed 9.2 knots (hull speed 7.2) in a Gulfstream counter current, reaching all the way until we ran out of wind 20 miles out from the Solent. Spanish Rias to Lymington in four and a half days.

Moral of those stories - plan for all conditions even if the majority have no problems. Bear in mind that Cape Finisterre usually has winds two scales higher than the forecast unless you stand well off - 25 NM or more.
 
KellysEye said:
..............

Moral of those stories - plan for all conditions even if the majority have no problems. Bear in mind that Cape Finisterre usually has winds two scales higher than the forecast unless you stand well off - 25 NM or more.
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Having just been in the area, I would worry more about Capes bares and Ortegal. The weather problem (one of them, at least) is that if you do the direct crossing, it is difficult to be reasonably sure that you will not get gales around these headlands as well as Islas Sisargas, Cape Villano all before Finisterre looms up.

The only two months never to have had a F 9 in Biscay are June and July.

My advice is always, that if you are not blue water equipped, it is best to keep crossings to three days or less eg Audierne to A Coruna. On those time scales, GRIBs should give pretty good guidance.
 
Is it just plain crazy to attempt North - South in October?

Hello,

First post so please be gentle... I've been reading all this Biscay advice with avid interest. We're planning on launching from Falmouth in the UK with a view to getting down to Gibraltar with a view to getting to the Canaries and then leaving for the Atlantic crossing in December.

Unfortunately, due to work being done on our boat, a 40ft sloop, we won't be able to leave the UK until the beginning of October, which I know is not exactly ideal in terms of crossing Biscay.

My original plan had been to do Falmouth to Brest and then hug the coast of Biscay, trying to take things relatively easy this side of the Atlantic crossing. However, have been advised by some that the sooner we get down south the better, best to cross Biscay far out, assuming we get the right weather window.

Having read some of these posts I'm now also pondering whether we set off from Falmouth for a longer crossing. Advice please! I would never be foolish enough to ignore the weather warnings but also want to be leaving the Canaries by mid-December but don't want the calendar pressure to push me.

Have never attempted Biscay before so any advice from you seasoned lot would be great.
 
Pottered down that way a few times. Personally I would go straight across, pick a good weather window if you can. (Have left Falmouth in a F7 so I could make 200 miles before being becalmed). Don't risk going into Carunna as you dan get trapped in there for weeks, believe me! Try round the cape to Muros (nice club there). The trawlers, net lights etc, off the spanish coast makes navigation quite stressful, the nets mayn't (as suggested) be a major hazard but they at the very least distracting, as is the large amount of sea traffic. Last time down managed to do Guernsey to Gib in less than a week, kept out wide across Biscay, and had a reasonable crossing, which was good for October.

The best advice I have had for passage making was simply, wait. Most don't have this luxury, but if you do, then your chances are better.

Cheerio,

GreyishBeard
 
>The only two months never to have had a F 9 in Biscay are June and July.

Not sure where you got that but in June 2004 we had 50 knots north of Finisterre - a Force 9. It lasted 24 hours and then dropped to zero and thick fog. As I mentioned a big ketch ran off with drogues, a cat hove to using both engines and a local fishing boat sank with the loss of all hands. Quite unpleasant.

>Is it just plain crazy to attempt North - South in October?

Yes. Wait until at least mid-May next year. Check your insurance for the dates you are allowed to cross, they may be June and July only.
 
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Biscay crossings

Jess said:
Hello,

First post so please be gentle... I've been reading all this Biscay advice with avid interest. We're planning on launching from Falmouth in the UK with a view to getting down to Gibraltar with a view to getting to the Canaries and then leaving for the Atlantic crossing in December.

Unfortunately, due to work being done on our boat, a 40ft sloop, we won't be able to leave the UK until the beginning of October, which I know is not exactly ideal in terms of crossing Biscay.
.
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Jess

I wrote http://weather.mailasail.com/Franks-Weather/Crossing-Biscay-Meteorologists-Advice some while ago, but you may find it useful.

Your idea of a crossing to Brest/Camaret is sensible. Personally, I would have chosen Audierne, the nearest French port to A Coruña – about 330 NM. A three day crossing is short enough for the forecasts to be good enough to keep you out of trouble. If it does go sour, there are Gijon, reasonably easy to enter or Viveiro to the east of Capo Bares and an easy entrance.

You might like to see my logs for 2000, 2010 and this year at http://weather.mailasail.com/Franks-Weather/Franks-Cruising-Logs-2000-Onwards. They will give you some ideas on sensible ports to try.


For texts of French and Spanish forecasts, see http://weather.mailasail.com/Franks-Weather/Southwest-European-Marine-Weather-Forecast-Texts. For the critical roundings of Spanish headlands, the Spanish are pretty good although I would always want to see them in relation to the US GRIBs. zyGrib is as good a source as any. See http://weather.mailasail.com/Franks-Weather/Zygrib-Ftp-Grib-Service

Finally, why Gibraltar? Lagos is a good marina with the adjacent Sopramar yard great for any work, with an excellent chandlers and good English spoken. I think that you will do better there than Gib. In any case, why go to the hassle of rounding Cape Trafalgar, pretty evil at the best of times, and then the strait of Gibraltar? Complications you could do well without. I know, I have done them both ways.
 
KellysEye said:
>The only two months never to have had a F 9 in Biscay are June and July.

Not sure where you got that but in June 2004 we had 50 knots north of Finisterre - a Force 9. It lasted 24 hours and then dropped to zero and thick fog. As I mentioned a big ketch ran off with drogues, a cat hove to using both engines and a local fishing boat sank with the loss of all hands. Quite unpleasant.

>Is it just plain crazy to attempt North - South in October?

Yes. Wait until at least mid-May next year. Check your insurance for the dates you are allowed to cross, they may be June and July only.
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I am pretty sure that it was the Admiralty Pilot current at the time that I wrote http://weather.mailasail.com/Franks-Weather/Crossing-Biscay-Meteorologists-Advice. I guess that it really referred to the open sea rather than the Spanish headlands. The RN and Met Office must have had no reports of F9 at that time.

I agree that I would never recommend a 5 day passage in October. In fact, for most yachts, I would not recommend a 5 day crossing at any time. However, shorter, 3 day, passages, with due attention to forecasts are quite possible.
 
Let me just put in a brief word for the route of Scilly to La Coruna (or Rias/Baiona if you prefer) -- great start and end points, gets you out and well off the continental shelf, gives you a good cut across the line of Ushant-Finisterre ships. Of course common to all routes is a need for a seaworthy boat, appropriate crew (in our case us and our children) and a seamanlike attitude and view on the weather. Nothing to be dreaded if you are prepared.
 
Skipperey said:
Let me just put in a brief word for the route of Scilly to La Coruna (or Rias/Baiona if you prefer) -- great start and end points, gets you out and well off the continental shelf, gives you a good cut across the line of Ushant-Finisterre ships. Of course common to all routes is a need for a seaworthy boat, appropriate crew (in our case us and our children) and a seamanlike attitude and view on the weather. Nothing to be dreaded if you are prepared.
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I agree 100% about being able to take a wide berth around the windy bits. If the Bayona entrance does not look too good you can simply go up the Ria to the RCN at Vigo. But, I do worry when yachts do that route when they are not appropriately equipped and crewed. That is why, at http://weather.mailasail.com/Franks-Weather/Crossing-Biscay-Meteorologists-Advice, I emphasise the other options for the majority.

To some extent an ocean crossing is different in that you have plenty of sea room, you can pick and choose when you cross an ocean using seasonal information eg trade winds and hurricane season. Even for someone going across to the Caribbean, Biscay can be a different matter altogether.
 
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