Biscay Crossing

Thanks for all the response - good food for thought - anticipating a couple of extra crew for the trip as insurance requires a minimm of 3 on board - this year is going to be about working up for it ( both us an the boat ) so we are planning more night passages and a few longer runs up and down the channel - and working up to some rougher conditions and finding how we and the boat behave. So far the worst we have been out in was a F8 through the needles channel and accross Poole bay that was in a 45 which we chartered for the weekend and althouigh we hada few extra hands we where the only 2 who sailed so that was an interesting trip. Anyway thanks for the comments one again - Nick
 
Similar to my preferred maximum. When we last came down I refused to go for about a week as the German forecasts were showing nasties off Finisterre. My crew got a bit huffy thinking I as too cautious so to keep everyone happy, rather than a direct Falmouth to Bayonna I went across to Brest and enjoyed the Chenal du Four for the first time as skipper. That kept 'em happy for a couple of days after which the forecast was 4/5 and we had a cracking sail with the cruising 'shute up for quite a while. We motored for less that four hours all the way from Brest to Bayonna!

My point really is that if one is prepared to sail on possible 6s then one will meet more 8s. I sail on 4/5 gusting 6 for a short time and seldom get anything really nasty - mind you, anything is possible. It is a point of honour and professional perfection for me to give my wife a comfortable ride. If we hit bad weather and she is uncomfortable, scared or otherwise unhappy then I have failed. I try not to fail /forums/images/graemlins/wink.gif
 
I agree with Lemain

If the conditions don’t feel right then don’t go. I made this mistake last year. We departed Camret-Sur-Mer with a good 4 day window, and then after getting caught out in a real nasty, took the old advice “STAY AT SEA WHEN IT’S ROUGH” After I was given more bad advice about the safety of entering La Coruna from a so-called delivery skipper.

After loosening the keel a bit, a near trip to my maker, 1 helicopter ride, and a big mess to sort out with the Insurance Company who still haven’t paid!

If your unfortunate to get a unexpected kicking of La Coruna in a bad one and all your fatigued, then I hope you have taken the time to read the pilot book and have decided on the safe havens.

Not trying to scare you but remember, as quoted from this months yachting comic “Once you leave the marina your on your own”

And they don’t have a friendly Lifeboat service in Spain ether. They just airlift you off and try and charge 90,000 Euros for the privilege.

My point is do you homework, watch the weather, and be honest with yourself.
Are you crew capable of the possibility of hand steering for days (If it gets bad)

I’m sure this is over kill. But as proved this year on the ARC that the weather is unstable and you need to now if your crew and boat are up to prolonged bad conditions.

Please don’t listen to my advice, make up you own mind. I’m just board and can’t get off the boat! It’s blowing a good 8 here! in Marina Bay, Gibraltar.
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Heelo Nick.
Remeber though, DONT let biscay become the nemesis many make it out to be. It just needs good planning and waiting for the right conditions. MOST people who get trouble are pushing deadlines and time windows, you shouldnt have that worry.
It deserves respect, yes, but can be a pussycat and not the thing of silly magazine articles.
Modern weather forecasting is good, but as said, try to learn it for yourself if you do not know. wait until you are happy and go. If you have expereince in a REAL F8, then no worries... learn the tactics if the excrement hits the rotary oscillator.. but you usually wont need them.

Oh, and ps, re Lemain.. lol.. Brest, Moulin Blanc, is the PITS... go for Cameret if you go that way ..... /forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif
 
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I’m just board and can’t get off the boat! It’s blowing a good 8 here! in Marina Bay, Gibraltar.

[/ QUOTE ] Have you got these wretched never-ending NEs too? It's blowing a hoolie in Almerimar but we are tucked well into Darcena 3, the quietest of the areas. How come you can't get off? There is no fetch there from the NE or is it swell?
 
Out looking at property yesterday so not had the time to sort out the circuits. I need to set aside a good day of quiet time. The scope works but I haven't tried it in anger. I wouldn't tackle the charger without it. The Lifeline AGM is due by Friday and they have provided the appropriate charging details for current cut-off, will post to other thread later, for everyone's interest. Lifeline have a superb rep in Spain 10/10.
 
Best way to learn is to go and do it I think, not much in the RYA courses about ocean sailing. With a good weather forecast of course. Brittany is well worth a look on the way though, one of the highlights so far for me. I did Biscay solo, 3 days from Brest and couldn't have been easier but maybe I was lucky. Didn't see so much as an aeroplane vapour trail for nearly 3 days, just wind aft of the beam. Vid here http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=Ci3aVr8ZQc8
Good luck and enjoy the tapas when you get there, the Rias are fantastic.
 
Started from Ireland 3 times, as far West as Cork, good place to start from, away from the busy bits for most of the way and a good margin of Westing.
 
I would definitely have yourself and 2 other competent crew, preferably one who has done it before. We came back the other way last July, and SWMBO chose to leave to us chaps. Have to say we had an excellent balance and mix, and to be fair Bilbo is an excellent weather man.

First criteria for us as a couple, would be how to deal with emergencies. If one of you is incapacitated, can the other handle the boat on their own, deal with the emergency, and seek help? This applies to any passage, including channel crossings.

Secondly, it will be tiring. With a 3-person crew, you can rotate between on watch, on standby to help, and fully resting.

Finally the weather - obvoiusly wait for a suitable window, and don't assume it will be bad just because of what you read. We had F5 most of the way from the west ish, which was fine - superb in fact. However when we came round Finisterre in June, we had less than 5 knots of wind, glassy sea,... but only a mile of vis all day.

Hope this helps - just a little, at least.
 
Hi guys

We have the boat pulled away from those nasty concrete pontoons Not helped by our large overhanging Pulpit), its probably gusting 50kns plus here and causing carnage, The marina staff are running around rescuing boats!


Lessons Learned

We were just unlucky with the weather, and there were only two of us on board a 31ft low volume boat.

We altered course away from La Coruna due to bad advice aforementioned in the previous post and headed south giving Finersteere a 20 mile offing. After complete exhaustion decided to heave to.

Our wind vane steering had packed up earlier in the day and we had had steered for a long time in very big seas.

We sat for 18 hours in very large seas beam on and our little boat was taking a real pounding. And after water started coming up through the keel joint we decided to ask for assistance.

It was October and as commented earlier the German 10 meter winds / weather on-line forecasts were good for 4 days, on an expected 3 day crossing. The Easterley 8 just came earlier, as a 10…..

I’m sure things would have been very different if I had had a strong crew of four.

There was a lot more contributing factors to this mess I got myself into but I need time to write them down.

The same storm caused a French crew to be rescued after abandoning their boat and a single-handed racing boat disappeared presumed lost at sea.

On a positive note all the other notorious stretches of water we have passed this year non-have given us any trouble. And I’m sure your Biscay crossing will be fine

Darren
 
So unless there's a super-pressing reason, cross Biscay during the 'recommended periods'. As I said previously, Biscay deserves respect but not a bad case of the hebeegeebies. It gets its reputation because it shallows (comparatively speaking) rapidly and that's where the seas build up. If you go into La Coruna then there will probably be a group of yotties in a huddle mutually scaring themselves about rounding Finisterre. I would seriously wait for a calmish forecast to tackle Finisterre. As somebody else mentions the isobars bunch up around there. If the area forecast is 6/7 then locally you can reckon on 8/9. On the other hand the 3 times I've done it, the first was sailing in bright sunshine, the second was motoring in fog and the last was motoring in bright sunshine. This coming summer I'd be tempted to have a look at the L'Abervrac, Rade de Brest and Camaret area. If you decide in 09 to go that way you'll be familiar with it. I agree that Camaret is a better place than Brest, there is a really good Moule/Frite restaurant there.
If you go to L'Abervrac, continue up the river until you get to some moorings in the middle of the river (just before the bridge). Provided it's still there, on the bridge is a really superb seafood restaurant, run by two retired Parisien 'professional ladies'. Good value (but not cheap). I wouldn't bother going through the Raz leaving Camaret, just take the WSW channel (well buoyed) and go.
 
We did almost the same as you, bought our boat in 1999 (38' Bav) and did our training run in 2001 from Jersey to Isle of Man, just to see if we could stand the watches 2 up. We left for the Caribbean in 2002. We bought a Windpilot, it was our third crew member and is actually considered as that by some insurance companies. We crossed Biscay in August from Camaret after waiting about 10 days for the right weather window, the forecast was spot on and we had a lovely trip. We crossed again in 2004 with a perfect forecast, ended up beating into 40kts but with lots of sea room and we were able to free off, engine then failed and we got no wind and thick fog at the La Corunna end, don't go without radar but again we did the trip 2 up. You make your experience by all the mistakes you make but if you can benefit from other peoples, so much the better. We made a series drogue, as with a light boat and a light crew, we knew that we wouldn't be able to steer for days, once this is deployed you go downstairs and wait for the weather to pass (at least that is the theory, we have never had to deploy it). Would also strongly recommend some prepared meals. I usually make soup which does 2 days lunches and two other meals for supper. Our new boat has a small freezer compartment and I can actually prepare food for 5 days, which is even better. Enjoy your trip.
 
Those pontoons adjacent to the harbour office and toilets? They are lethal. QQ is no better, I suspect. I was in there (by car) a week or so ago and spoke to Jackie who told me that there is never any swell or surge now that the island is complete. So why are all the boats two or three metres off the pontoons??? Why were all the yachts moving about when the conditions had been settled for days?? I don't think that there is a anywhere in Gib that's really quiet and safe.

As for Biscay, October sounds a bit late. I don't think that my present insurer (Pantaenius) stipulate but my previous one (GJW) required three crew and last crossing in September, I think. We crossed in mid-July. In 1982 I was coming back in a MoBo and waited in Corunna for weeks but the forecasts were not good - we ended up leaving the boat in Santander for the winter.
 
Very good point Lemain

We learnt a very valuable lesson from leaving it too late. Thus we tried to cross in August last year and still couldn’t find a suitable window (Nothing under a 5-6). After giving up and deciding to go on the inside, we found all the Biscay inner route charts sold out in South Brittany. Once we got to Ria De Vivero (5 Days sailing from 20 miles east of the Raz) We bumped into lots of other cruisers just as disappointed as us that we didn’t cross directly, but all agreed they enjoyed the scenery on the inside route.

We bumped into a few boats that crossed Biscay in early September, who had a completely uneventful run across. We should have waited a few more weeks in Ireland!

Gibraltar is definitely worth a visit but I can agree the pontoons in Marina bay are horrendous in the prevailing Easterlys. We are located on that pontoon, after two full days of the wind blowing spray off the water we have decided to move on as soon as the weather clears up. Maybe a few days in Morocco and then up to were you are in Almerimar and onwards.

We have heard good things about Almerimar, well apart from the shower block! Is it worth a visit?

Darren
 
Starting from S wales I have also looked at using Cork as a departure piont, seems to have the advatage of staging well clear of the rocks and turbulance off Brittany as you are off the shelf almost immediately. You also have plenty of sea room if you do need to hove to and ride out weather. My most likely scenario is to be doing the trip on the way back from Spain in 09 (planing a 'tour round the bay' for that summer as our test cruise) so would also be interested in anyone who has done this route
 
everyone seems to have their own idea about going from UK to Spain but could you let us know what boat you have please.
I went across Biscay with Rally Portugal in June 2001.Sea was flat as a pancake and we motored for most of the way.Everybody on the rally arrived at Bayona within five days of leaving Plymouth and the rally continued as planned along the Spanish Portuguese coast with day cruises and evening parties.
The following year the weather turned foul after departure and the rally participants ended in ports/harbours all around the Bay.
The inside passage is great fun and unless you are in a crazy hurry you will be missing some of the nicest parts of France and Spain.
 
Always easier with 20/20 hindsight?

Morocco is worth a visit for sure. Almerimar is excellent. Do please PM me when you know you are coming or if you'd like any info.
 
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We had more problems with the fishing boats than the weather, they seem to enjoy changing steaming towards you then veering of. Radar is a definite boon.

[/ QUOTE ]Ah yes, the notorious Spanish fishing fleet of Cape Ortegal!

Are they still there? When I passed through a couple of years ago we saw no more than half a dozen boats.

On my first passage across, nearly twenty years ago, it was quite different. We arrived twenty or thirty miles off Cape Ortegal to a spectacular and magical sight. Little lights twinkling all around us in the night, stretching out as far as we could see. There must have been upwards of a hundred boats there, as you say not bothering in the least how close they rushed up to us.

I really appreciated the value of night experience among shipping that evening. My partner, who had sailed much less than me, said that she found it very difficult to work out how we should be responding to the boats that seemed to be approaching us, what direction they were taking. Of course they don't show nav lights.

A crewmember with us, one of those unfortunates whose ability stubbonly fell far short of his experience, completely freaked out. He seemed quite unable to work out what was happening, which boats were near and which far, which were coming closer and which moving away. He certainly didn't trust my judgement, and when he came on watch became almost hysterical demanding that we go back. I feared at one point he might put out a mayday while we were preoccupied with making progress, so I surruptitiously pulled the plug on the VHF. Perhaps not the best example of man-management!
 
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