Biscay crossing in october

[coco]

This is a short account for all of those who gave advice for my trip across Biscay.

We left St. Malo on the 4th. with a good NW headed for St. Quay as a shakedown leg. Then on to Camaret through the Four, but this was interrupted by gale warnings in the afternoon, so we settled for L'Aber Wrac'h after battling the whole night against WNW Bf. 5-6 in view of the Ile Vierge light. After a short sleep, continued to Camaret in very good conditions (NW 3-4). Waited 1.5 days for strong winds to subside in the Ouessant area. Departure at 04:00 in the morning for the Biscay crossing, choosing direct route due to good forecast. First 10 hours a bit bumpy (NW 5-6) then subsiding and getting sunny and warm. First night motoring with light winds and a beautiful moonshine. Second day with light winds as well. Lots of dolphins around. Second night with an increasing ENE closer to Cabo Finisterre. During my watch had a constant 6-7 gusting at 8 (max. gust at 42 knots). Only one reef in the main and 3 rolls in the genoa. Surfing the 15 ton boat at over 10 knots in the moonshine was a real delight. I broke the distance record with 20 miles during my 2 hour watch! At daybreak the wind subsided. From then on we had more or less light winds all the time (and moonshine in the night). Stopovers in Leixoes (best food in a small restaurant just across the harbour), Lisboa (very nice Fado night downtown) and ending the trip thursday in Vilamoura. Total 1140 miles.

Meteo data: in Britanny, we used the Cross forecasts. Before leaving Camaret, we got data from the internet (www.wetterzentrale.de) and requested advice from the MetOffice (very good and friendly service). Underway in the Biscay we got data from Nortwood WFAX (using my Sony SW55 and my laptop with Jvcomm32.) We requested advice from the MetOffice in Leixos again (because of the very limited data available on VHF in Portugal) and continued to use the WFAX charts from Northwood. The whole combination (MetOffice and Northwood WFAX was extremely useful in the decision making process and I would not undertake any longer trip like this in European waters without them.)

The boat: the version of the GibSea 51 we had, is a boat specifically made for the charter market (5 cabins each with loo and shower). Performance wise, the boat is very ill suited for clause hauled legs (slams very violently in any small wave and has a lot of drift). Off the wind (from about 90 deg real) the vehicle is OK and quite comfortable. Although it is very worrying to hear the whole boat creaking and twisting in the waves, we did not notice any significant hull weakness. One incident gave us nevertheless something to worry about: on the leg from Lisboa to Vilamoura and during my night watch, a slightly larger wave made us heel suddenly. I heard a lot of noise below and thought that kitchen stuff had shifted. But the engine started to show strong vibrations. A lengthy inspection of the shaft and other equipment did not show any damage until I opened the door to see the lower part of the engine on the stbd side. I could not believe my eyes: the two bolts holding the engine to the support beam were cleanly sheared off. Same thing on the other side. We stopped the engine and made the remainder 60 miles under sail alone with very ligth winds. The boat will be on the lift on monday fo repairs. My conclusion: although the GibSea 51 is not a bad boat, it is not really well suited for this kind of trip.

If anybody wants more infos on our experience, I will be glad to help.

Cheers to all and thanks again for your advice.

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[Salty]

Crikey, a bit scary that a Gibsea 51 is not suitable in your view for a relatively easy Biscay crossing. What would have happened if it had really blown up?

It reminds me of the (very probably apocryphal) stories that before a certain well-known French volume manufacturer started building boats in the US it would deliver half-fitted out boats for the Caribbean charter market from France crewed by any young sailors keen for a bit of adventure and a few Francs, and if a few of the boats each season never arrived at the destination, c'est la vie!

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[Sybarite]

This is the second post withinn a week where the engine bearer bolts sheared in what could not be considered bad weather :- strong winds but hardly gale force. I wonder if is it caused by nuts working loose and allowing a certain play?

Perhaps one additional check before setting off on a long crossing?

John

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[Sybarite]

I'm glad you added the rider "apocryphal" to this story because I am sure that this is what it was. In France you have always had the offshore categories and any boat making a transatlantic crossing would be in category A ( ex Cat. 1) implying that it is designed for the purpose and has all the mandatory equipment necessary to carry out the trip. Before a French boat can be chartered it must have an inspection certificate from the "Affaires Maritimes" saying that the boat complies with its category rating. They can insist on additional work being done ( eg tightening the pulpit nuts, repairing sails etc ) before the certificate is issued.

On the other hand I remember one well-publicized tale of a single-handed delivery skipper being caught in a hurricane in a Feeling 10m40. The boat came through it without any damage whatsover.

John

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[goupil]

I went back to your summer post before answering :
"Gib Sea 43 is not a proper boat", in the meantime you were lucky enough to be upgrade to a Gib sea 51 but still : "not a bad boat but not well suited for this kind of trip" !
May be just good for Lake Geneva ?
IMO, you don't deserve these boats you're given the opportunity to sail.
I'm not keen on Gib Sea but I used to sail some of them, not the best for beating but a good compromise for most of the owners/users...

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[coco]

I am not certain as to how to read your comment! Sorry if I did not report the swearing of the crew trying to beat upwind in moderate wind and sea.

I thought I reported some positive aspects as well.
We had 2 weeks to reach our destination and in order to make it, we sometimes had to inflict some harsh treatment to the boat. This kind of sailing would probably not be practiced by the average owner, but I think my assessment is fair ("it is not really well suited for this kind of trip", that is in this area, in this time frame, etc). I can agree with your statement "but a good compromise for most of the owners/users...".
Why does Lake of Geneva have anything to do with my story? In any case, I am not sure there is any marina big enough for a 51' boat.

Maybe you could comment a bit your statement about deserving a boat. I dont quite get it, but I am certain it would make a nice thread.

I have sailed some of the older GibSea models (before the buy out) and can say that they behaved better in similar circumstances.

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[iangrant]

Re: Engine bolts

Mine 'twas the other tale of woe - the sheared mounting studs - the standard 16mm studs should be up sized to 18mm

It's not a bad job if you do them before they break - if done afterwards then you have to support the engine from above.

Ian

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[goupil]

Re: Lake of Geneva :

a kind of joke. Well , may be not a good one. I answered in this way because of your Summer statement:
"Gib Sea 43 is not a proper boat". Browsing through posts it seems that AverageWhiteBoats are not welcome.
IMHO they are designed and built to meet customers needs.
Thanks to them a lot of people are able to enjoy sailing, you and I too. I think that if you had to wait for the "proper boat" you would sail a lot less than you did (most of "crew wanted" are for those AWB and hundreds cross Biscay each year).
On the other hand, your report is unbiased so I beg your pardon for the joke.
BTW engine brand ? if somebody is to blamed it's them, bolts and silentblocs are delivered with the engine (and same trouble happened on HR & GS).
Enjoy your sailing...

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[vyv_cox]

Not so apocryphal! A friend of my son's took to the liferaft in mid-Atlantic when delivering a brand new 42ft JenBen. Woke up in the middle of the night with water lapping against his face. He was in a berth, not on the sole! Boat sunk within 10 minutes.

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[coco]

Re: Lake of Geneva :

I agree with your statement "Thanks to them a lot of people are able to enjoy sailing".

The engine is a Volvo (as far as I remember an MD22). We suspect that a shock occured during a previous trip and damaged at least one of the bolts. Leading to the successive failure of the others. The strange thing is the way the bolts were cleanly sheared off just below the lower nut. Good precision work! Just amazing. Volvo France apparently said that they had seen this only once in a capsized boat.

I wish good sailing to you as well.

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[Twister_Ken]

Ooh . Tell us more. nm

`

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[vyv_cox]

Re: Ooh . Tell us more. nm

Not a lot more that I know. There were three on board, two on deck at the time. Owen's friend was wearing only underpants when they took to the raft. Little time available for damage assessment but they thought the hull/deck joint had failed. Fortunately they were picked up by a ship very shortly afterwards, whether thanks to an EPIRB or luck I don't know.

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[kesey]

Re: Ooh . Tell us more. nm

42' BenJen is a bit vague. If the son of a friend of mine had taken to a liferaft in the middle of the Atlantic, I'd make darn sure I knew the make and model. The knowledge might inform my future buying decisions.

Any new boat can have problems..some to do with the commissioning, some to do with operator error, some to do with manufacturing error. If a throughhull fails, or a valve is not shut off, the Atlantic does not think twice before it pays a visit.

I'm glad your friend's son and crewmates made it back ok. They were lucky.

I know of a very new Najad where the fuel gauge was wired up incorrectly. The stainless steel tank had almost corroded through...The owner was just about to do a 350 mile trip and got a strong smell of diesel. The bilges were full of the stuff. Cockups happen. Ask the guys who were running Three Mile Island.

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[vyv_cox]

Don\'t shoot the messenger!

Sorry I cannot satisfy your thirst for the gory details. It was a friend (and ex colleague) of my son, not the son of a friend. The incident was about four or five years ago. This was a professional delivery crew who presumably knew something about the boat and the trip.

I don't remember whether it was a Beneteau or a Jeanneau, so I am certainly not proposing to point the finger at a specific company here. I shall be buying neither a Beneteau nor a Jeanneau, ever, so my future buying decisions are not influenced.

In the circumstances it is understandable, to me at least, that they were unable to identify the cause of the sinking. I believe they attempted to find it but the rate of ingress was very high, certainly more than might be occasioned by a failed through-hull.

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[Salty]

Sybarite,

My point is that the boats weren't necessarily Cat A because once they got to their destination they'd only ever be used for Cat B sailing. If you read my post they were not being chartered but sailed half-fitted out (by relatively inexperienced delivery skippers) to the Caribbean where they were being finished off before being used in the local charter market.

I say 'probably apocryphal' because I don't have names, dates, specifics. But I did some sailing a while back with a guy, not prone to exaggeration or shaggy dog stories, who had turned up to be first-mate on a three man delivery of one of these yachts and walked away because the skipper didn't know his arse from his elbow and the boat was so incomplete it was, in his words, a death-trap.

Don't get me wrong - I own a French AWB too and love it dearly, but I really wouldn't want to put it through a hurricane!