G
Guest
Guest
Can anyone tell me if the BMW 18o engines, rated at 165 hp are any good. A broker told me that they were poor engines and I should look for a later model with 200 hp engines.
You are using an out of date browser. It may not display this or other websites correctly.
You should upgrade or use an alternative browser.
You should upgrade or use an alternative browser.
G
Guest
Guest
They had overheating problems with early examples but later ones were OK. However, the 200hp Volvos are a better match for the boat and will get you to 22/23 knots. The boat is bit under-powered even with the twin 200's (193hp actually) and twin 165's (probably down a bit now due to age/wear, etc. make it even worse. Also, the resale value of BMW powered boats is poorer than the Volvos (as you are finding out).
I don't have a TS37 but a TS33 which is very similar but a little smaller with an aft cockpit.
Nick
I don't have a TS37 but a TS33 which is very similar but a little smaller with an aft cockpit.
Nick
G
Guest
Guest
I know a fellow at Newark in Notts who has a BMW powered ts 37, and he is very positive about them, apparently they are "continuously rated" at this power versus peak rated, so there is less difference than most people think. In addition I understand that they formed the basis for the mercruiser diesels (Though I could be wrong on this.)
The boats are cheaper to buy, and will sell for less. I would envisage the main problem being in actually finding someone to buy the boat, consequently you may get stuck with it.
This is a nice boat, however there are some people who claim to have seen stress cracks in the hull foward, Undoubtedly a better seller with the volvo 200's, but still IMHO underpowered. Have you looked at a fairline 36 Turbo? Roughly simular age and layout, great hull layup and legendary seekeeping, no problem with resale. Big 306hp volvo's the ones to go for, though watch engine access.
We looked at a TS37 2 yrs ago and ended up with a 36 Sedan. I did like the boat, but felt that 400hp was not enough in a boat of this size and for proper offshore use.
The boats are cheaper to buy, and will sell for less. I would envisage the main problem being in actually finding someone to buy the boat, consequently you may get stuck with it.
This is a nice boat, however there are some people who claim to have seen stress cracks in the hull foward, Undoubtedly a better seller with the volvo 200's, but still IMHO underpowered. Have you looked at a fairline 36 Turbo? Roughly simular age and layout, great hull layup and legendary seekeeping, no problem with resale. Big 306hp volvo's the ones to go for, though watch engine access.
We looked at a TS37 2 yrs ago and ended up with a 36 Sedan. I did like the boat, but felt that 400hp was not enough in a boat of this size and for proper offshore use.
G
Guest
Guest
Not enough for proper offshore use? The boat can do 22/23 knots, easy cruise 19/20 knots @ 10-12 gals per hour. How fast do you want to go when offshore cruising? Also she has 200gals fuel which gives a decent range. The Turbo has smaller tanks and with the bigger engines will only manage less than 2/3rds the range. If. as I do, you cruise the West of Scotland this is an important point. On the other hand the turbo is probably better finished and keeps its value better.
Not much room for a genny in either boat
I have had a Birchwood for some time now and she is generally well screwed together. I have come through some very big seas and can attest to her general sea-keeping qualities although that big broad stern makes her a bit of a handful in a following sea. The rounded chines seem to help soften the ride considerably compared to my previous boat (a Fairline Mirage which would slam a lot in anything over force 1!) I have not heard of anyone having stress cracks in this model but any boat will show that driven hard enough into big seas.
Nick Nick
Not much room for a genny in either boat
I have had a Birchwood for some time now and she is generally well screwed together. I have come through some very big seas and can attest to her general sea-keeping qualities although that big broad stern makes her a bit of a handful in a following sea. The rounded chines seem to help soften the ride considerably compared to my previous boat (a Fairline Mirage which would slam a lot in anything over force 1!) I have not heard of anyone having stress cracks in this model but any boat will show that driven hard enough into big seas.
Nick Nick
G
Guest
Guest
Re: My Turbo 36 holds 260 Gallons fuel.nm
nm
nm
G
Guest
Guest
It is true that the BMW block was the basis of the Mercruiser. The later ones, have been sucessfuly modified with bigger oil and water heat exchangers, so that the original overheating problem was overcome. The engines that have been modified are OK. However for the TS37- not enough power- OK for river use though.
The major aspect that you must consider is not only the re-sale value with those engines, but the cost of spares. I know only too painfully,the cost of spare parts I had to buy for a twin BMW petrol Birchwood 27.
I have a TS37, and I think it is a fabulous, very comfortable boat, a bit lively at times in a following sea, but you learn to live with that.
My TS37 has the benefit of Volvo TAMD61A's(306HP), which I regard as plenty but not OTT. If you like the boat and want to go offshore cruising, then wait for one with different engines, it'll be worth it.- good luck.
The major aspect that you must consider is not only the re-sale value with those engines, but the cost of spares. I know only too painfully,the cost of spare parts I had to buy for a twin BMW petrol Birchwood 27.
I have a TS37, and I think it is a fabulous, very comfortable boat, a bit lively at times in a following sea, but you learn to live with that.
My TS37 has the benefit of Volvo TAMD61A's(306HP), which I regard as plenty but not OTT. If you like the boat and want to go offshore cruising, then wait for one with different engines, it'll be worth it.- good luck.
G
Guest
Guest
Re: My Turbo 36 holds 260 Gallons fuel.nm
Sorry! I looked at a Turbo some time ago and her tankage was 165gals fuel and I think 70 gals water. She had smaller engines so may be the 306hp engines got larger tanks. I just assumed they would be the same given the restricted space in an aft cabin boat.
Nick
Sorry! I looked at a Turbo some time ago and her tankage was 165gals fuel and I think 70 gals water. She had smaller engines so may be the 306hp engines got larger tanks. I just assumed they would be the same given the restricted space in an aft cabin boat.
Nick
G
Guest
Guest
As an interested Birchwood owner, did you re-engine with the 306's - I did'nt think these were an option when new as Birchwood had problems with the TS37 sport initially. Apparently they were unable to cope with more power because of the relative lack of weight in the stern (no aft cabin) and were inclined to lean over dangerously under full power. I recall Princees had a similar experience with their 32 when trying to ramp up the power.
Do you have the same 200 gal tanks + What sort of fuel consumption do you get
Nick
Do you have the same 200 gal tanks + What sort of fuel consumption do you get
Nick
G
Guest
Guest
Nick No it has not been re-engined. I think my TS37 (with aft cabin) is somewhat unique, in that it was MADE with those engines in. As a consequence, it has an extra thick lay-up in the hull, and weighs considerably more than the standard one. As regards stability, it in no way behaves badly due to extra power, and gets onto the plane quite quickly.
It has 2 x 100 gal tanks and does about a gallon to the mile, although I have not taken it on very long runs as yet. It has also a 6.5kVA generator, a washing machine and all electric cooking- again from new. These were specified by the original owner, along with other personal touches. She is very comfortable (the boat that is). rgds Stuart
It has 2 x 100 gal tanks and does about a gallon to the mile, although I have not taken it on very long runs as yet. It has also a 6.5kVA generator, a washing machine and all electric cooking- again from new. These were specified by the original owner, along with other personal touches. She is very comfortable (the boat that is). rgds Stuart
G
Guest
Guest
Sounds nice. I have a smaller genny but gas cooking which I prefer - you don't have to run the genny to heat soup, boil a kettle, etc. Where I cruise, shorepower is a bit of a luxury, confined to Scotland's limited number of marinas. However, you pays your money as they say. At a cruise of around 18 knts I get about 10-12 gals per hour, depending in sea state so I have approx 50% more range. Where I cruise there is quite often a long haul between decent refueling berths so this is quite important to me.
Nick
Nick
G
Guest
Guest
Re: How fast do you want to go?
OF course you are spot on Nick, at the end of the day I think that we only average around 18knts given the weather anyways, so 22 is fine.
However I think that there is a growing demand for more power in boats, This is a perception versus reality problem caused by builders offering more and more power in new boats. In fact of course some of the best offshore boats cruise in the 12-15knt band, ie Trawler boats.
ACtually I like the TS 37, and Birchwoods new moves may mean a resurgance in interest in the older boats. I always thought that the 37 was a nicer, more roomy boat than the 36turbo, and comes across as more modern looking as well.
At the end of the day it comes down to useage, If I was looking for a liveaboard I think a aft cabin of that age is about right, Will the user be doing any cruising in company? (There is a fellow in the SW who reengined his 36turbo to twin 370 yanmars just for this reason, if you can believe what you read in the Mags's, apparently he could not keep up with his mates with twin 200hp.)
I think that this big engine thing may be relativley short lived, given the rising cost of fuel and the chances of losing the red exemption. I need to learn to relax and slow my life down!
OF course you are spot on Nick, at the end of the day I think that we only average around 18knts given the weather anyways, so 22 is fine.
However I think that there is a growing demand for more power in boats, This is a perception versus reality problem caused by builders offering more and more power in new boats. In fact of course some of the best offshore boats cruise in the 12-15knt band, ie Trawler boats.
ACtually I like the TS 37, and Birchwoods new moves may mean a resurgance in interest in the older boats. I always thought that the 37 was a nicer, more roomy boat than the 36turbo, and comes across as more modern looking as well.
At the end of the day it comes down to useage, If I was looking for a liveaboard I think a aft cabin of that age is about right, Will the user be doing any cruising in company? (There is a fellow in the SW who reengined his 36turbo to twin 370 yanmars just for this reason, if you can believe what you read in the Mags's, apparently he could not keep up with his mates with twin 200hp.)
I think that this big engine thing may be relativley short lived, given the rising cost of fuel and the chances of losing the red exemption. I need to learn to relax and slow my life down!
G
Guest
Guest
The BMW engines correctly has an overheating problem, however this occurs because of dirt in the 1) aircooler and 2) heatexchanger. Depending on how and where the boat is used same has to be cleaned aprox every 2 or 3 years - Then there is NO PROBLEM.
The engine size suits the boat perfectly. Maybe the resale price is lower with BMWs, however the purchase price is also competitive. The same engine is still available from Mercruiser and is still produced by VM in Italy. Spares are fairly priced.
If you like the boat buy it, and start with cleaning the cooling system.
Good luck
regards Kaj
The engine size suits the boat perfectly. Maybe the resale price is lower with BMWs, however the purchase price is also competitive. The same engine is still available from Mercruiser and is still produced by VM in Italy. Spares are fairly priced.
If you like the boat buy it, and start with cleaning the cooling system.
Good luck
regards Kaj
G
Guest
Guest
Don't own this boat, have the Volvos everybody considers desirable though, both gearboxes failed,very common on those sir! I was told afterwards, then both the heat exchangers failed, oh yes that is very common with this model sir. BMW's all they do is overheat, if you are unlucky to buy one that hasn't been modified, well check if it has and buy it, it can't be any worst than a Volvo!
G
Guest
Guest
I had to replace one of my oil coolers which turned out to be basically my own fault as there is an anode in it which was not replaced and it caused terminal corrosion. The other cooler no problem. As far as the gearboxes go, there were three varieties - the MS2B MS4A and PRM. I have the 4A's and thus far (11 years and about 1100 hours) no problems (touch wood)
Nick
Nick
G
Guest
Guest
I believe spares for the BMW are readily available and that there's a BMW engineer/agent located at Val Wyatt Marine http://www.riverboatsales.co.uk
G
Guest
Guest
Hi Grahame,
I have been very interested in the TS37 myself. No one has mentioned that BMWs interest in the marine market was very short and that they no longer produce marine engines now! In view of this I certainly have avoided the purchase of a TS37 with BMW engines as I am sure it is going to be difficult to find spares now or in the future! I would go for the Volvo engines, problem is these boats command a much larger price!
Regards Barry
I have been very interested in the TS37 myself. No one has mentioned that BMWs interest in the marine market was very short and that they no longer produce marine engines now! In view of this I certainly have avoided the purchase of a TS37 with BMW engines as I am sure it is going to be difficult to find spares now or in the future! I would go for the Volvo engines, problem is these boats command a much larger price!
Regards Barry
G
Guest
Guest
Nick, there was an article in one of the boating mags (MBM, I think) a few years back about the Prestige Power sea school from Ocean Village in Southampton re-engining a TS37 with Sabre engines, about 300hp each if memory serves.
G
Guest
Guest
Right thanks for that Byron! but you must admit it does make for an uncertain future if you purchase a TS37 with these engines!
Barry
Barry
G
Guest
Guest
Thanks for that Mike but I was asking really from curiosity. To be honest, I would never consider re-engining aboat unless I had a catastrophic failure - conrod through the block/dropped valve wrecked head, etc.
The economics just do not stack up I if I wanted a boat with bigger engines I would set about buying something which had them as original equipment.
Nick
The economics just do not stack up I if I wanted a boat with bigger engines I would set about buying something which had them as original equipment.
Nick
G
Guest
Guest
Nick, you're quite right. You never get your money back. It brings to mind that Turbo 36 which featured in MBM a while back which had new Yamahas fitted plus an all round tart-up; it was advertised for sale a while back and I reckon the owner took at least a £25k hit even if he got his asking price which was way above market value anyway
