Bilge pumps - how many ?

I beg to differ. The best baler is one that buys you the time to sort out the leak...

Having said that, as mentioned above, none of the electric pumps generally sold for bilge pumps will keep up with a snapped through hull - but nor will the proverbial frightened man with a bucket. If you want to be able to deal with that, I reckon you need an engine-driven pump. I regard my bilge pumps as the way to get rid of rain that finds its way in or seepage from stern glands and the like; for a serious leak, I reckon it's press the big red button time.
I have not seen an engine-driven pump that would do much good (if you mean driven from your boat engine) - they tend to have capacities much lower than an electric pump and they don't work if the boat's engine isn't working. Whenever I've looked into them I have come to the conclusion that an electric pump (or a spare) is a better option.
 
I regard my bilge pumps as the way to get rid of rain that finds its way in or seepage from stern glands and the like
An extremely sensible post, and made me think that an easily accessible mask and snorkel is probably more useful in an emergency even for use inside the boat!
 
If the leak is sufficient - close the water intake for your engine, direct water intake to leak (having planned for this you will have the pipe work) start engine. If the leak is too big - you might be better prioritising a PanPan or Mayday and life raft

Engine pumps water overboard giving you time to find source of leak. Engine also can take you closer to shore and unlike sails does not need much attention - giving you more time for the inevitable radio conversation

And variations on theme

But relying on a motivated man is fine - short term

I don't recall, considering the number of yachts afloat, that their sinking is numerically very common.

Jonathan
 
I guess shower pumps could come into play once the water is above sole boards? Or has anyone fit a diverter valve to allow the shower pump to draw from a hose/strainer in the actual bilges?
 
If the leak is sufficient - close the water intake for your engine, direct water intake to leak (having planned for this you will have the pipe work) start engine. If the leak is too big - you might be better prioritising a PanPan or Mayday and life raft

Engine pumps water overboard giving you time to find source of leak. Engine also can take you closer to shore and unlike sails does not need much attention - giving you more time for the inevitable radio conversation

And variations on theme

But relying on a motivated man is fine - short term

I don't recall, considering the number of yachts afloat, that their sinking is numerically very common.

Jonathan
My boat came with what I assume is a winterising pipe and cock which has a hose lying in the bilge to place in a bucket. It had never occurred to me I could switch to this in an emergency so thanks for pointing this out. For all I know that's actually the purpose of the hose and my guess was wrong!
 
One manual bilge pump operated from cockpit, one rigid bucket, one collapsible bucket for redundancy


About the same as me.

I recall Pete Goss was sailing a leaky boat to America and said it was quite a relief when the water reached above the toilet bowl, because you could sit on it and pump to keep the level down. There used to be a product like a rubber ball with a roving hose through it, that you could stuff down the bog to use the pump. I keep meaning to improvise something on those lines.

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If the leak is sufficient - close the water intake for your engine, direct water intake to leak (having planned for this you will have the pipe work) start engine. If the leak is too big - you might be better prioritising a PanPan or Mayday and life raft

Engine pumps water overboard giving you time to find source of leak. Engine also can take you closer to shore and unlike sails does not need much attention - giving you more time for the inevitable radio conversation

And variations on theme

But relying on a motivated man is fine - short term

I don't recall, considering the number of yachts afloat, that their sinking is numerically very common.

Jonathan
Bear in mind that my engine uses about 5l/min cooling water - so roughly 60 gph. A typical bilge pump will be rated around 1000 gph and perhaps achieve half that (500 gph) in a typical installation. So the engine is not going to make that much difference.
 
The best manual bilge pump is a bucket and I'm sure he has one. ?
We have four buckets and a stirrup pump. No fitted manual pump.
If you knock your log transducer fitting out of the hull by impacting something and that fitting is 1m below water you will fill the hull at a rate of approximately 20,000 litres an hour. A manual bilge pump would be a futile waste of time. A panicked person on a Henderson Five pump would in theory be able to manage 60 lites per minute so 3600 litres if he could keep going for an hour. Nothing like what is needed to keep a small boat afloat. A larger boat with a higher hull volume will stay afloat longer.
Our batteries are well above the water line. We have plenty of battery capacity. We can start the engine or generator to charge those batteries. We can pump water for far longer and at a far higher rate than could ever be achieved by a manual fixed bilge pump
 
I don’t disagree that it was a design flaw, but it’s a common one and the water was well above the floor by the time they sealed the leak so may well have entered a battery box above the floor. Also worth remembering that you’ll have various wiring in the bilge too so the batteries might not even need to get wet for electrics to fail or be unreliable. My engine and main switches are probably only 2-3 inches higher than the floor, and if a fuse blows do you want to be poking around your batteries with water all over the place?
I guess that depends on how your boat is built. Water would need to get over my saloon seats to flood the batteries. Every time my main bilge pump is activated in the central 800mm deep sump, the alarm is triggered. We only panic if the alarm doesn't stop.
Why would any boat builder install main switches 3" above the floor? You wouldn't even do that in a car! My main switches are at shoulder height in the saloon.
 
Why would any boat builder install main switches 3" above the floor? You wouldn't even do that in a car! My main switches are at shoulder height in the saloon.
This is extremely common, many production boats have them and the VSR under the bottom step. I'm not talking about the switch panel here, but the domestic/engine switches or 1-2-both ones.
 
I guess shower pumps could come into play once the water is above sole boards? Or has anyone fit a diverter valve to allow the shower pump to draw from a hose/strainer in the actual bilges?
Our shower sump is under our floor boards. It has a 2000 gph rule submersible bilge pump installed. It is one of our emergency pumps by vertue of it location. The top of the shower sump is about 10 inches below floor level
 
This is extremely common, many production boats have them and the VSR under the bottom step. I'm not talking about the switch panel here, but the domestic/engine switches or 1-2-both ones.
Those are in the engine room at head hieght with battery charger. Generator is mounted on a high plinth in engine room. All electrics associated are at high level. I assumed all builder would have considered these things but from what you say that is not the case
 
Those are in the engine room at head hieght with battery charger. Generator is mounted on a high plinth in engine room. All electrics associated are at high level. I assumed all builder would have considered these things but from what you say that is not the case
Far from the case, in fact I'd suggest it's quite unusual not to have electrical switches lower than head height. You've obviously been lucky from a flooding perspective, but many boats including mine don't have anywhere high and convenient for such things. Most engine compartments are tiny and have no space. Not sure whether I prefer no electric in a flood over no way to switch off in a fire, it's always a compromise on a boat ?
 
Most leaks are going to be small. If the leaks are large and only a bilge pump offering 1,000 gph capacity is needed - then you have a life threatening disaster on your hands (and a manual bilge pump or bucket will be ..... a drop in the ocean) - I know the engine 'water capacity' is small - but I also know that it will run unattended for hours - I hope the same can be said for bilge pumps. We run our bilge pumps (we have one for each hull) - to check they work - but we have never run them for hours on end. We also have a cockpit located manual pump with a pipe that will reach to the 4 extremes of our cat (but if I'm working the manual pump - I'm not looking for the leak). Our cat also has large crash bulkheads in the bows, transoms, our keels are hollow and sealed and we have sealed compartments under the cabin sole. We would need a major disaster to sink us given that we have so many sealed water tight compartments.

Each yacht will have different solutions and being cognisant of the use of the engine may give you the time to find the leak - in the absence (for whatever reason) of electrical power. It seems lustyd may have his engine set up for just the eventuality being considered. Its not rocket science to have a garden hose ready - its just one arrow in your quiver. You close off the sea cock and connect a garden hose (or its connected via a 'T' fitting) - you start the engine - and given fuel it will run for days.

The advantage of using the engine is - it removes some water, takes you nearer safety or help, provides electricity - simultaneously - and I know it will run for days. Now tell me about the tests of reliability, long term, on electric bilge pumps. My problem is - I've never tested one for an hour, let alone hours - and certainly not days. I do know that the novelty of using a manual bilge pump or bucket will wear off - very quickly - and possibly reduce your, physical and mental, ability to sort out any leak.

Given that hull fittings are likely to be the most likely source of a leak - I wonder how many people have wooden bungs of the appropriate size tied (or located adjacent to) their hull fittings. If leaks develop elsewhere - then returning to my opening sentence you have the makings of a life threatening disaster and a PanPan, at least, is going to be appropriate + that 1,000gph, reliable, bilge pump. If you need a 1,000gph bilge pump the most useful, and reliable, device will be an EPIRB.

Jonathan
 
Most leaks are going to be small. If the leaks are large and only a bilge pump offering 1,000 gph capacity is needed - then you have a life threatening disaster on your hands (and a manual bilge pump or bucket will be ..... a drop in the ocean) - I know the engine 'water capacity' is small - but I also know that it will run unattended for hours - I hope the same can be said for bilge pumps. We run our bilge pumps (we have one for each hull) - to check they work - but we have never run them for hours on end. We also have a cockpit located manual pump with a pipe that will reach to the 4 extremes of our cat (but if I'm working the manual pump - I'm not looking for the leak). Our cat also has large crash bulkheads in the bows, transoms, our keels are hollow and sealed and we have sealed compartments under the cabin sole. We would need a major disaster to sink us given that we have so many sealed water tight compartments.

Each yacht will have different solutions and being cognisant of the use of the engine may give you the time to find the leak - in the absence (for whatever reason) of electrical power. It seems lustyd may have his engine set up for just the eventuality being considered. Its not rocket science to have a garden hose ready - its just one arrow in your quiver. You close off the sea cock and connect a garden hose (or its connected via a 'T' fitting) - you start the engine - and given fuel it will run for days.

The advantage of using the engine is - it removes some water, takes you nearer safety or help, provides electricity - simultaneously - and I know it will run for days. Now tell me about the tests of reliability, long term, on electric bilge pumps. My problem is - I've never tested one for an hour, let alone hours - and certainly not days. I do know that the novelty of using a manual bilge pump or bucket will wear off - very quickly - and possibly reduce your, physical and mental, ability to sort out any leak.

Given that hull fittings are likely to be the most likely source of a leak - I wonder how many people have wooden bungs of the appropriate size tied (or located adjacent to) their hull fittings. If leaks develop elsewhere - then returning to my opening sentence you have the makings of a life threatening disaster and a PanPan, at least, is going to be appropriate + that 1,000gph, reliable, bilge pump. If you need a 1,000gph bilge pump the most useful, and reliable, device will be an EPIRB.

Jonathan
We have two Lavac loos. If we needed a manual bilge pump we can remove the suction end from the loo and use those. The pumps are Henderson Mk5 high capacity bilge pumps. They are there but I can't imagine a scenario where doing this would be useful. We generally sail with just two of us. We would rather leave electric pumps doing the work whilst we find and deal with the leak. Our main emergency pump is a Rule 3700gph, with a 1.5" hose, on a float switch under the saloon floor. This is higher than the main sump bilge pump, a 2000gph Rule pump.
I would be nervous running the engine cooling water hose into the bilges as a pump due to the risk of blockage from the debris that could be pulled in to the pump. Sinking plus no engine and no way of charging my batteries would be a concern
 
My boat has no bilge ( well it's an enclosed water ballast tank with no access) and as often as not lives on its trailer as its only 22ft......and it still managed to flood when a cockpit floor hatch seal failed and let rain water in in spite of a lip. I had not expected to find the boat with 2ft of water inside and had no bilge pump so it was bucket on a string and chuck it, and it took a good hour or so to empty. 1) I renewed/rejigged the seal 2) rigged up a little auto bilge pump v.cheap off ebay and it sits on the cabin floor stuck with blue tack and has the hose running through the plywood winter companionway hatch. We've been dry ever since but I test it regularly.

Had the boat been afloat when it flooded I think it would have stayed afloat, but the potential was not lost on me and I'm pretty sure the auto bilge pump would have saved the day in my absence. I've thought hard about a fixed manual pump, but I think a portable one would be as useful and mean less holes drilled in the cockpit. I havn't bought one yet, but I have a hand dinghy bailer for small amounts.
 
Could you T into the head washbasin outlet? (Assuming that the shower is there).
Be really careful with that. Friend did the same and created a Syphon. We went to the pub and when we got back the water was above the cabin sole. No automatic bilge pump, no alarm. Lucky not to lose the boat
 
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