macd
Well-Known Member
For fumes to have been such an issue, was that a solvent-based epoxy?
Bilge Paint - What's special about it?
- Thread starter richardabeattie
- Start date
For fumes to have been such an issue, was that a solvent-based epoxy?
Kelpie
Well-Known Member
What's the finish like on that? Would it be terribly wrong to use it on topsides?
Lakesailor
Well-Known Member
macd
Well-Known Member
Ok, Lakey, chilling stuff but you're going to have to help me with my chemistry, here.
Your warnings concern the use of isocyanates, but the original reference, by Jim@sea was to epoxy. What's the connection between isocyanates and epoxy resins?
I have found this: http://www.hse.gov.uk/foi/internalops/sims/manuf/3_12_01.htm
It's a HSE document entitled "Reducing ill health from isocyanate exposure in motor vehicle repair". It naturally warns at length about isocyanate safety, but the only reference to epoxy is in respect of contact dermatitis, which most of us know about already. I gather that isocyanates are often used as curing agents for polyurethane 2-packs; are they present in epoxies, too?
Your warnings concern the use of isocyanates, but the original reference, by Jim@sea was to epoxy. What's the connection between isocyanates and epoxy resins?
I have found this: http://www.hse.gov.uk/foi/internalops/sims/manuf/3_12_01.htm
It's a HSE document entitled "Reducing ill health from isocyanate exposure in motor vehicle repair". It naturally warns at length about isocyanate safety, but the only reference to epoxy is in respect of contact dermatitis, which most of us know about already. I gather that isocyanates are often used as curing agents for polyurethane 2-packs; are they present in epoxies, too?
rogerball0
N/A
The finish is semi gloss so probably not the brightest on topsides although extremely durable, i've used it in a number of applications not just boat-based and can't fault the stuff. EDIT: mines solvent based, well i think it is as i get monster visuals when spending extending periods time on the brush, i tend to shake it off, you know walk around the garden till the dwarfs and unicorns have disappeared then get back in there....................
Athough for sheer freak-out buzz (read: slumped on saloon floor laughing manically) i personally find Auto-Glym' Intensive Tar Remover hard to beat, got properly baked stripping headlining glue from my Centaur.
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Lakesailor
Well-Known Member
I posted that to alert people to 2K paints. Jim@sea said
.
When I was looking for a small amount of gun-applied paint for a car last year the Automotive paint suppliers didn't seem to have epoxies.
I you asked for a 2 pack paint (2K) you may be supplied with a paint containing isocyanates.
I just mention this so that you check precisely what you are being supplied with.
From http://www.jawel.co.uk/index.php?main_page=index&cPath=161&zenid=g58qu574rlj3incqeh1239vel2
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macd
Well-Known Member
Ah, now I understand. Thanks.
Jim@sea
Well-Known Member
Similar to Gelshield but half the price. Advantage, very quick drying, second coat half an hour later. Disadvantage, in hot weather don't put too much hardener in as it will go off as you apply it.
Jim@sea
Well-Known Member
When ICI first brought out the brand 2K (being acrylic & isocyanate) ) my garage was one of the first garages to use it. In those days the myth was that it was soluble with liquid consequently my paint sprayers took that as an excuse to clear off to the pub on the way home and the only reason they wore as mask was so they weren't recognised in case the Benefits Office sent an inspector round. (many paint sprayers were self employed but could not come in one morning every 2 weeks)
Certainly Isocyanate fumes do effect people and constant exposure can be dangerous, however the fumes you get from brushing with 2 pack are nowhere near as dangerous as when spraying as not only are you taking in the fumes you are taking in the paint particles as well.
macd
Well-Known Member
Jim, with respect I think you may misunderstand the nature of epoxy. With polyester/vinylester resins, it's true that varying the proportion of catalyst will indeed vary the speed of reaction. Epoxy is quite different: for the chemistry to work, the two components must be mixed in a precise ratio: molecule 'A' must combine with a certain number of molecules 'B'. If there are too many of either, the resulting compound is degraded by the persistence of unreacted molecules of whichever was in excess. To change the speed of curing of epoxy, either alter the ambient temperature or use a different hardener.
I'd also suggest that when choosing an epoxy for use in quantity (or high surface area) in confined spaces, a solvent-free epoxy would be preferable: the unpleasant fumes you first referred to were almost certainly the solvent.
PS I'm assuming you're aware of the fundamental - and profound - difference between a catalyst and a hardener.
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Tranona
Well-Known Member
Nothing to do with "corner cutting". You will also find plastic tanks fitted in the most expensive custom built boats. Neither are they cheap for one off custom building. The reason for fitting them is because they are more durable than metal tanks and for large scale production can be moulded into shapes that are not possible with metal to maximise space usage. Shut off valves as you describe are common and mandatory for MCA coding.
Uno
Member
Very dangerous ....
You are using a 240 v electrical motor to extract solvent fumes... please please please don't ! and also not a good idea to advise others to do the same !!
Just being an electrical appliance is dangerous enough but a Henry gets hot as well.
You are using a 240 v electrical motor to extract solvent fumes... please please please don't ! and also not a good idea to advise others to do the same !!
Just being an electrical appliance is dangerous enough but a Henry gets hot as well.
reeac
Well-Known Member
I seem to recall reading that Danboline is used in vast amounts for painting big ships, it's plus point being that it's very un fussy about surface preparation and weather conditions thus speeding up the job no end.
robertj
Well-Known Member
Years ago I painted the whole bilge of a fishing boat with bilge paint but ran out. I couldn't buy bilge paint on that day so carried on with floor paint which was nearly the same grey.
Outcome was after five years both lasted equally well, neither one better than the other.
Hydrozoan
Well-Known Member
Can one obtain white garage floor paint? When I got mine (for the garage) the choice was grey, red or green and although I've seen some other colours on links given here, I don't think I've seen white - or did I miss it?
alahol2
Well-Known Member
Hydrozoan
Well-Known Member
Thanks - I must admit it wouldn't be my colour choice for the garage floor, but it probably would be if I were looking to use it inside lockers!
Iliade
Well-Known Member
I hope you've got a flame arrestor on your Henry...
You would be a lot safer and better off to use it the other way around, blowing clean air into your face mask (though a filter.)
Jim@sea
Well-Known Member
When I started spraying with 2 pack paint in the early 1980's it was only occasionally as my paint sprayers did it full time, one had to give up as he became ill with asthma, and obviously even then we had air-fed masks.
And when painting with a brush I did not bother. Sometimes you do have to take a decision to expose yourself to risk. (for a short time) certainly painting a bilge for an hour every 3 years (breaking it up into 3 x 20 minutes) is perhaps a bit like being in a French bar before they brought in the smoking ban. When I am painting the bilges with a brush I have the Henry up on deck and extend the hose with a length of tubing. Certainly the fumes were worse when I was doing the painting in the middle of summer but the hardest bit was when I had to crawl under the fuel tanks and the area was a bit constricted. Perhaps the expression "Familiarity breeds contempt" is apt.
(I had a drink last week with the paint sprayer who worked for me in the eighty's and he said that what did the damage was the years of spraying with cellulose as this was before air=fed masks were introduced)
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Sticky Stuff
Well-Known Member
Bilge Paint is formulated to be very tolerant to poor surface prep and contamination as is found in most bilges, to be self priming, tough and as resistant to oil, diesel ect spills as possible also to have very high opacity to cover in one good coat even at the expense of flow /leveling properties.
Most formulating of Gloss paints (house gloss included) have none of those criteria and concentrate on quality of colour brightness / stability, gloss ect and even more so for exterior used.
Go for it if a good gloss and ultra violet stability is what you need in your bilge rather than simple toughness.
Most formulating of Gloss paints (house gloss included) have none of those criteria and concentrate on quality of colour brightness / stability, gloss ect and even more so for exterior used.
Go for it if a good gloss and ultra violet stability is what you need in your bilge rather than simple toughness.