bilge keels

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rogerstaxi

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Hi i am new to sailing and would like to here some comments and views on a couple of boats i am thinking of buying /forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif
the boats are a -- Westerly 25 / a Snapdragon
Or a folkboat ..
what seems to have me puzzled is that the benifits say bilge keel, the ability to beach, shallow draught, all the things that lend well to the Essex coast, and owners seem to like them .. but the reviews say that they are not very good boats to sail.. ie not safe sailing into high wind..
My problem is i have to get the other half to feel safe and confident in the boat which seem to tick all the boxes except actual sailing.. if anyone how owns one could comment it would be a great help /forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif /forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif /forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif
 
Welcome to the forum.

All the sensible folk from here are probably on their boats at the moment, so best wait until Monday or Tuesday for some reasonable opinions.
 
Hiya and welcome.

Not worth listening to me as it seems those who occassionaly have to work weekends will have nothing sensible to say.

Though when you consider the circular logic of Sting's point, you'll ignore the comment: he is not on his boat and therefore has nothing sensible to say, and therefore his comments must be ignored, which means he can be listened to, which means he's telling you he has nothing sensible to say...ah damn. (he's probably onboard with wifi anyway)

Never owned one, but was always under the impression that the Folkboat was a very seaworthy vessel. Not bilge keel though, but you could consider beaching legs. Aren't they still competing in Atlantic races?

know nothing about the other two.
 
Let me rephrase that....

Anyone with any sense will be on their boat right now. Anyone working should have the sense to change jobs so that they get a sensible amount of boating time. I am on my boat right now and seldom have anything sensible to say. Very seldom. Uhm, I think I should go back to bed because my liver is very tired after last night's events at the Yacht Club where the drinking beyond sensible quantities was sensibly encouraged.

Am I making sense yet?
 
It seems as though I have finally given some sensible advice.

By the way, why did you say "Hiya and welcome"? I've been mouthing off on here since 2001.
 
I am not on my boat because I am going abroad on Tuesday and clearing up my study before I go - thanks for creating a diversion for me!

Anyway, you can't go wrong with any of the mainstream bilge keelers as a starter boat. They won't "sail" as well as a folkboat, but you will be drier and have room to move down below - and they won't dry out on their sides.

Much more important to buy a boat that needs little or no work, has a good engine and a recognised class. This means you can go sailing straight away and find out whether you like it or not. Then you are well placed in a couple of years time to move on (and likely up). You will have your experience to inform the choice of your next boat.

Good luck and enjoy!
 
Both the Westerley and the Snapdragon will be safe and sensible boats. The Folkboat will be faster but less convenient for tidal moorings or drying out on beaches.

There are some Bilge keelers that sail far better such as the Hunter Duette or the Hurley 22 or 24 . Im sure theres loads of other faster bilge keelers.
 
Are you making sense you ask?

IMHO no ,your talking shite. I work lots of weekends then take time off in the week when I enjoy the privilidge of peacefull sailing and uncrowded locks and harbours.
 
Back to the plot. I've had a bilge keeler which was no good as a sail boat, on the other hand I've just been out on a Prelude bilge-keeler this afternoon and it was as good as similar fin keeler I had last but one.
In today's conditions that is. Not terribly windy. but sailed well , pointed up nicely and turned on a sixpence.
Not the same size as you're thinking of but the same holds true. If you go for a well respected type it should be a good sail. If you buy a bathtub no-one's heard of (or likes) you'll not enjoy the experience.

I have a friend who is (was) the National Folkboat Champion. He sailed a Hunter Duette home from the Isle of Wight for someone, single-handed in a force 6, and he was delighted with it's abilities.

I've not sailed on a Westerly, other than bigger ones, and can't vouch for them, but some think they are wonderful and others dislike their rather staid perfomance.
 
W25 is a great starter boat. At least mine was! Most popular cruisers have their own "Owners site" that will make you aware of the potential issues with the model. Here is the site for the Westerly 25. For its time it was a lively "cruiser/racer" that will outsail many of its contemporary bilge keelers like the Eventide, Macwesters & Snapdragons. Later designs however, are more likely to be even better.
 
"If you go for a well respected type it should be a good sail."

Not true sir! Here's how PBO described the hugely popular Macwester 26:

' The Macwester's reputation is nothing short of legendary - for weather helm and leeway she's almost without equal . . '
 
Hi,

The westery and the Snappy are both good boats, not sure what you mean by "unsafe" the bilge keel is not guilty of that more than any other design - and we've done keels to death on this forum over the years! Sailing to windward on the otherhand is not going to be as fine on the wind as a fin keel and the snappy in particular likes to go sideways but I wouldnt hold that against it - its a good solid seaworth boat. On balance better than the Centaur but thats my opinion!
 
Daft as it may sound, buy one with a good engine! Nobody who cruises chooses to beat home against the tide in any boat whether it be fin keel, bilge or anything else. Therefore the priority for most is not the boat's ability to sail to windward but the ability to get the wife and kids home into a headwind quickly by motoring.
A new engine for this type of boat would cost as much as the boat itself and twice as much as a new suit of sails. Therefore, get whatever comes along that suits your requirements as long as the engine is sound.
 
If you are on the E coast why not look at a Southerly 28 with retracting fin keel. Get up creeks and go places similar sized boats cannot go. Dry out on the mud, no problem. Can't understand why there are not loads of em around here. No doubt someone will tell me why.
 
One important point regarding bilge keels and your wife's understandable desire to feel safe is the ability to dry out upright. When you run aground ( and you will in the creeks and rivers of Essex and Suffolk -- I know from experience) you can tell your wife that the worst that can happen is that the tide will go out and then come back and after 10 !! hours upright you will float off ( it happened to us last year). This prospect is much less frightening than " if we go aground we can lean the boat over and get off, but if that doesn't work the boat will lie flat on the mud and when the tide comes back it may refloat or it may fill with water and sink".

I have owned and sailed only in Bile keeled westerlies, they sail perfectly well, usually within 5% of the same boat with a fin, motor just as well as fin keelers, and are perfectly safe in all reasonable weather, or are you planning to cross the Atlantic?
 
[ QUOTE ]
... or are you planning to cross the Atlantic?

[/ QUOTE ] That seems to imply that bilge keelers are unsafe in extreme conditions when compared to a fin keeler. Roger Taylor would disagree wholeheartedly - he's just set off on the Jester Azores Challenge in Mingming, a bilge-keel junk rigged Corribee. Last summer he sailed it to Iceland from the East Coast, returning via the Atlantic shelf 250 miles west of Ireland and round to Plymouth. I think he has written on the Jester forum that he'd choose a bilge keeler every time over a fin for seakeeping abilities.
 
Hello and welcome.

Like Graham, I seem to work most weekends, so sail midweek. Judging from the boats you mention, I'm guessing your budget is approx 5k. The Snapdragon 24 and Westerly 25 are roomy boats for their size (important if you want to convince SWMBO), with 4 berths and a separate loo. You are most unlikely to get either of these in a Folkboat. At your budget, the Folkboat will be an older timber one, probably not in the best condition: as you are new to boating, do not underestimate the amount of extra time this will take to maintain. I would say, therefore that you may want to steer clear of the FB. The Westerly sails better than the Snapdragon, but as others have said, look at engine, gear and so on. Neither boat sails quickly, but they are both perfectly seaworthy designs capable (otherwise there wouldn't be many so many of them still around after 40 years!).

It will really come down to a personal choice: view the boats with SWMBO and try to visualise it being your own boat. See if you feel at home in the cockpit, bring a thermos of coffee and sit down in the saloon together - as with buying a house, you will feel when it's the right one.
 
If you want your o/h to feel safe and confident, start off down the Westerly/Snapdragon line. They are more than capable of handling higher winds than your o/h will go out in and more likely to instill confidence in a newcomer. The Folkboat is of a totally different pedigree.
 
thanks for all your replies .. as has been said the fact that so many are still around is a testament in itself ..you all have given me much to think about ....thank you i will post updates to let you know what has been decided
 
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