Bilge keelers & taking the ground

[Searush]

Thanks Seajet, very useful, I am taking notes! If you see somebody with lots of note books barging into your Yacht Club next year that will be me as I definitely need to buy you a drink in exchange for some local knowledge and private tuition

Wonder if you can fit stabilisers onto a long keel, my daughter has just finished with hers

Zagato, it's winter, so pop into your local library & see what books they have on cruising under sail, anything by Hiscock, Maurice Griffiths, Allcard, Moitessier, etc. OK most of it is deep water passages, but once you find the section, browse it thoroughly & read as much of it as you can. They may have The New Glenans Sailing manual or similar or RYA theory books. All of them will teach you something. Anyway, it's a fun thing to do on a cold winter's night infront of a nice fire with a drink in your hand.

 

[sighmoon]

(snip)
Around Chichester, the bottom is soft mud, BUT at the entrance, from East Head to just opposite HISC and the entrance channel, the banks are VERY hard shingle, might as well be rock - avoid !

Also treat the sandbanks to either side of the entrance, out to and beyond the beacon, with respect, they're very hard sand, and more to the point have surf and / or significant waves on even quite calm days.

No problem at all if one doesn't try to be a smart-arse ! Top Tip, as there are so many boats in the harbour, it's quite common to see some misguided soul set off across the shallows - they look like a large expanse of inviting open water when the tide is up - don't follow people thinking they know better !

Any 'plough' type anchor, such as your CQR, should be fine in the soft mud one would choose to anchor in, at least as important is putting out the correct amount of chain or warp - especially with rope, one cannot often put out the prescribed 6 X max' depth, as the swinging circle can be large, risking either hitting other boats or swinging aground as tide turns or at slack / slow water if the wind changes.

I carry a large folding grapnel as a kedge for the above and moreso for 2 reason; if things go pear shaped and I'm on or near rocks, where I wouldn't choose to be, the grapnel has a chance of penetrating weed and holding on a pointy seabed ( temporarily as it relies on a pivot pin ).

More useful, I lower it on a seperate line down the main anchor warp about half-depth as an 'angel'; this gives a lot more horizontal pull on the main 'bower' anchor, which all anchors like.

This allows using less warp in calm wather, or improves holding on a long warp in bad weather.

In Chichester, the W side of Emsworth Channel is a nice spot to anchor, not much passing traffic especially at night, and sheltered usually; just take swingng as the tide turns into account.

When anchoring by the edge of a channel, also bear in mind the night breeze; in daytime the sea-breeze often blows onto a shore ( especialy beaches, Hayling foreshore gets this a great deal ) as hot air from the land rises, and cold air from the sea rushes in to replace it.

At night this reverses, the breeze often blows off the land; so if anchoring before dusk, a breeze which was blowing you clear of the shore can often reverse ! Not usually strongly though.

Beware too that if taking a bee line ( rhumb line ) from the Southsea Dolphin passage* to Chichester beacon, this can put you over pretty shallow patches off Hayling foreshore, best to keep off shore a good 1/2 mile + of that line, more to start with as the sands vary year to year.

* In case you haven't heard of it, and it is stupidly badly marked on charts with a very long list of victims, there is a Submarine Barrier consisting of huge concrete blocks, extending from Southsea shore to Horse Sand Fort, then a gap for the shipping channel to No Mans Land Fort, where the blocks continue again to the Isle of Wight shore.

The blocks are visible at low water near Southsea beach, while near Horse Sand Fort with a decent bit of tide you'd probably get over them, but I certainly wouldn't try it !!!

The blocks are marked by occasional vertical yellow posts, and there are 2 small boat passages through.

One is fairly close to Southsea beach, marked by red & green posts. It's quite narrow and close in, not much point to a boat going to & from Solent & Chichester (and the shoals off Langstone Harbour, the West Winner, would be en route ).

Another much more useful passage is known as 'The Dolphin', maked by a concrete 3 -legged structure which looks like an H with the top bits off from a distance.

There's a post to the shore side, one makes a point of going beween structure & post; the Dolphin structure has a light.

There is a wreck marker post about 1/4 mile NE of the Dolphin.

This gap is on the direct route from Chichester to the Solent; it voids having to use the deep water channel between the forts, which can get surprisingly rough and is a bit of a large vague area when fast ships are around.

If going through the Dolphin passage, beware heading West that Portsmouth entrance channel is close ahead; it's narrow here, so a case of sprinting across when no ships are about. Listening to VHF channel 11 - Queens harbour Naster, 'QHM' is a very good way of working out if ships are coming soon, they move fast, especially the catamarans.

If you hear a fast cat or anything 'request swashway' theyre taking the channel through the shallows ( Hamilton Bank )to the W of Portsmouth entrance.

Hope you haven't fallen asleep and that's some use...

Superb 'cut out and keep' post for anyone going that way. Thanks for posting that.

 

[Slow_boat]

The major advantage of being able to take the ground is not to be taken lightly. The only way I can afford to keep a boat is down twin keels and cheap drying moorings. I'm hoping they'll be useful when leaving her afloat or ashore in foreign climes, too.

 

[Zagato]

Zagato, it's winter, so pop into your local library & see what books they have on cruising under sail, anything by Hiscock, Maurice Griffiths, Allcard, Moitessier, etc. OK most of it is deep water passages, but once you find the section, browse it thoroughly & read as much of it as you can. They may have The New Glenans Sailing manual or similar or RYA theory books. All of them will teach you something. Anyway, it's a fun thing to do on a cold winter's night infront of a nice fire with a drink in your hand.

Yes good idea Rushy, I am reading a few at the moment from the library but could do with one really good concise sailing book, almost like a manual that you can keep in the boat for any eventuality! I will look your suggestions up. I won't be sailing anywhere outside of the area between Chichester and the Isle of Wight for a while so a good pilot book for this area would be a good idea. I'm a tight git so if I can get something second hand (even a second hand chart for now for reference) that would be handy Hint Hint anyone

Seajet - get writing you have one year to knock out a pilot book for the area - I will need to proof read it first of course

 

[alan_d]

...could do with one really good concise sailing book, almost like a manual that you can keep in the boat for any eventuality!

Reeds Skipper's Handbook - £5.51 from Amazon. Too consise for initial learning but a superb aide-memoire.

 

[Zagato]

Thanks and a nice price

 

[PeterGibbs]

Wossa "leeboard" Searush?

It's a bilge keel strapped to the side of your boat - as you now see. Not a design that transferred on from the brown armada days. Still trying to work out why....?

PWG

 

[Tidewaiter2]

AC STOCK for mud work!

Thanks and a nice price

'Sailing just for fun' but don't expect to sleep more than3 hr on his rules!
Oh, and you have to wear Viyella shirts!!

 

[GTom]

A long time ago, not long after we started cruising, a bilge-keeled Westerly Discus sunk on her mooring in Beaumaris when a bilge keel punched right through the hull. A rather large boat to dry on every tide but a warning of what can happen.

Sorry to revive an old thread... Any idea which areas should be avoided on the W/SW coast? The Menai strait neighborhood seems quite densely populated with drying moorings - are all a menace to Westerly bilge keels?

 

[armchairsailor]

Nope. The straits are mainly mud.

 

[vyv_cox]

I think that particular incident occurred in Friars Bay. I am not sure about the bottom there but it is quite exposed to northerly winds with a fetch of over a mile.

 

[GTom]

Nope. The straits are mainly mud.

Question is what kind? Deep & soft, which allows the keels to fully submerge can be problematic...

I think that particular incident occurred in Friars Bay. I am not sure about the bottom there but it is quite exposed to northerly winds with a fetch of over a mile.

Good point, pounding with each tide is definitely not healthy...

 

[GrahamM376]

Sorry to revive an old thread... Any idea which areas should be avoided on the W/SW coast? The Menai strait neighborhood seems quite densely populated with drying moorings - are all a menace to Westerly bilge keels?

Best to get one out of the main tidal flow wherever the location, problem comes when the boat gets bumped around as it rises. Wonder if the Friars Bay incident was caused by an old mooring block, we've spent several nights there without problem but not in high winds.

 

[GTom]

Best to get one out of the main tidal flow wherever the location, problem comes when the boat gets bumped around as it rises. Wonder if the Friars Bay incident was caused by an old mooring block, we've spent several nights there without problem but not in high winds.

Interesting points, circumstances are crucial when judging an accident. Even a steel boat could be sunk by a sharp block...